Episode 528 - Berwyn Mountain UFO

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

UFO!

BEN KISSEL

Oh I'm excited.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) I've seen a bit of a UFO now.

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

BEN KISSEL

Whoa.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) There's a light up there, I saw a bit of a light up there.

BEN KISSEL

Whoa?

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It go a bit of a structure, didn't it?

MARCUS PARKS

I hear you've seen it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It's got a bit of a structure. It's a little bibbidy boo. Yeah, a flippity flop.

MARCUS PARKS

Now you've got too far. You were in Yorkshire, now you're going to Liverpool with the bibbity bop.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) Wippity wop and they had a bit of an alien in there.

MARCUS PARKS

You do the bibbity bop?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It's a bit of an alien, it's a bit of a UFO there.

MARCUS PARKS

Bibbity bop.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) He's from out of town, isn't he?

MARCUS PARKS

Now you're Paul McCartney.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Fuck.

BEN KISSEL

Don't be Paul McCartney. Be Ringo!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well I wish. But I'm trying to... This is the problem is I know this accent, it's very specific. I listen to a lot of Russ Kellett.

MARCUS PARKS

(British accent) Yorkshire.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) A Yorkshire accent.

BEN KISSEL

(British accent) Yorkshire.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It's very nasal, it's a bit of a nasal, right? UFO! UFO! It's so cute. It's very cute.

BEN KISSEL

It is too cute.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And I also know that he's (British accent) a rough and tumble man.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) He likes motorbikes.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh no, in Bradford, they're fucking vicious.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Very that. So it's a cute accent in a very hard group of people.

BEN KISSEL

I was watching Canadian hockey fights mic'd up, dude. Oh ya bastard, ya fucking bastard. Your father was a good player, you're not as good as your father.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They're not even good at insults!

BEN KISSEL

I know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They're too nice.

BEN KISSEL

But they would also beat the shit out of us. Isn't that weird?

MARCUS PARKS

It is weird.

BEN KISSEL

But they still made fun of them as they were doing it.

MARCUS PARKS

I know.

BEN KISSEL

Like are you doing it right? Are you doing it right?

MARCUS PARKS

I know Russ Kellett could beat me into a fucking pulp.

BEN KISSEL

Sure, of course.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. He's got ropey motorcycle arms.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. But still.

BEN KISSEL

He sounds like a lemon.

MARCUS PARKS

We're still doing this episode.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) There's a bit of a UFO there!

BEN KISSEL

Welcome to the Last Podcast on the Left everyone. Ben hanging out with Marcus and of course Henry as well.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I'm excited, we're getting back into UFOs.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well I'm excited because we're doing some smaller topics because we've been doing super long ones.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, nice and long.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's nice to get back into this world as always.

BEN KISSEL

All right, let's talk the Berwyn Mountain UFO incident.

MARCUS PARKS

The Berwyn Mountain UFO incident, and I'm also probably sure we're pronouncing that incorrectly, it's probably Bare-vain?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well no, I saw-

MARCUS PARKS

It's Welsh. So it's gonna be a strange pronunciation.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's Ber-WIN.

MARCUS PARKS

Ber-WIN.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, that's what I saw. Again as you go through various videos, every ufologist says every single word different than other ufologists to make it sound like they know the real way to pronounce something.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Well I'll tell you one thing, I know this episode won't be bor-ING.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

Thank you.

BEN KISSEL

The Berwyn Mountain UFO incident!

MARCUS PARKS

Thank you for having faith in the two of us.

BEN KISSEL

It's been 15 years of proven results.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It has. It's in the pudding.

MARCUS PARKS

The Berwyn Mountain UFO incident, known by some as the Welsh Roswell-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Or Roswelsh.

MARCUS PARKS

It is a highly debated aerial episode from 1974 in which multiple people reported seeing strange lights that could have been controlled crafts amidst a quaint British earthquake.

BEN KISSEL

Oh interesting.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Okay, I will push back a little bit just because it happens in Hopperton, doesn't mean that the earthquake is cute.

BEN KISSEL

No, it does.

MARCUS PARKS

No, it's a 3.4. that's a cute earthquake.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh it is, it's a fart.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, you know the British earthquake, it hurts the earthquake more than it hurts the people.

MARCUS PARKS

Now Berwyn Mountain isn't just debated because skeptics believe that they have multiple possible explanations for what those people saw that night.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Everybody's got fucking five explanations for fucking every single thing they got going on in their lives.

BEN KISSEL

It's important to see what it could be, prove that it wasn't, and then it's unidentified.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm sick of all this sense.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This logic.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Berwyn Mountain is also debated because some claim that the actual Berwyn Mountain incident is far more cinematic, exciting, and consequential than the story of a woman driving up a mountain and turning back because the light freaked her out.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey man, to that one woman, that's the scariest story that ever happened in her life. But for the rest of us, we hate it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why it's nice there is two different versions of the Berwyn Mountain incident.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

She made the right decision.

MARCUS PARKS

But before we get into the battle of Berwyn Mountain and all of the (DULESDAY) style ground battles starring a certain Bradford ufologist, let's talk about the more accepted version of the Berwyn Mountain incident, the MUFON version let's say.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, the grounded version.

MARCUS PARKS

Yes. Which is still highly compelling. So on the night of January 23, 1974, a woman named Pat Evans living in Northern Wales was in her kitchen when she heard a loud concussive sound which shook her home.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) Who's that waking himself up with a fart in his sleep?

BEN KISSEL

Really nailing it.

MARCUS PARKS

She thought that her range stove had finally exploded as her husband had been predicting for years.

BEN KISSEL

You're just gonna want to get a new one.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Every once in a while a husband is correct. I'm saying this down the pipe to the camera.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

All right? Because as husbands-

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Only when it comes to things that might explode soon.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

BEN KISSEL

We know that. That's about to explode, that's about to explode.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But we're always incorrect when it comes to our emotions because we don't share them.

MARCUS PARKS

Ugh. That's what they say. Ugh.

BEN KISSEL

No because then you do share them and then you have the wrong emotions.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Always. But no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we love it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Yeah, we love it.

BEN KISSEL

Guys, save it. That's a different relationship podcast. When Marcus and Henry start the relationship show, Patreon exclusive.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Patreon exclusive called Husbands Are Correct.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Pat figured that the noise came from the direction of the nearby Berwyn Mountains, located about 50 miles south of, yes Henry, south of Liverpool as the crow flies.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It's a bit of a UFO on the left there. You got to be careful, gonna make a bit of traffic going down to Hamburg.

BEN KISSEL

If I'm a UFO, I'm stopping in Liverpool, dude. They party.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah man.

BEN KISSEL

They party hard.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Us and those 15 year olds had quite a night in Liverpool.

BEN KISSEL

Good god.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I hear they party dangerously and with intimidation.

BEN KISSEL

Well just, they party to mate. That's what they do. Literally it seemed like we were on Rumspringa when we were in Liverpool.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Nobody there was under... It was weird. It was just nothing but children, it felt like Pinocchio.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It was like all of these children are out, we had to leave immediately.

BEN KISSEL

Well we stayed out all night but...

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah we did but then we went to an old man bar which was nice.

BEN KISSEL

That's was fun.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, that's where we belonged.

BEN KISSEL

And there was a fight outside.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh that's fun.

BEN KISSEL

But a Liverpool fight, so they were just like (British accent) ouch, ouch, ouch.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, they didn't shoot each other. It's nice to just see two grown men punch each other in the face.

BEN KISSEL

That's true.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Now Pat first tried contacting her village policeman to report the explosion but she couldn't get an answer, no one at the phone. Eventually she found an authority figure in a seaside town 40 miles north and asked him if there was possibly a plane crash up on the mountain. That was the only thing they could explain for an explosion from the mountain.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah man, this is called what the internet used to be.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Calling somebody you'd think might know.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

This authority figure said that Pat wasn't even close to the first person who'd reported the explosion. But as far as the cause, he said that it could be anything really.

BEN KISSEL

Well then you fucking got a lot to work with, don't you? Why don't you go figure it out, narrow it down.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) Let's just say we've got like 10 different options of what it could be, right.

BEN KISSEL

Yep.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) But what we're gonna do here right now is instead of a bit of it on the ground bippity bop action, I'm gonna do a bit of a thinkety think up here in my top hat. You see right here were my top hat is? My bobby crown.

BEN KISSEL

I love it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) That's called my thinking area.

BEN KISSEL

Okay great. Well let's think maybe what could it be?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And so Pat and her daughters trained in first aid and good samaritans all, they drove up the mountains at around 9:30/10 PM to see if they could help anyone who was possibly hurt.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why the British made it through WWII because they're self reliant and they kept a stiff upper lip and they get out there and they do whatever happens and they never feel anything.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Self reliant, in no way expansionist.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

BEN KISSEL

Great Indian food for some reason.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Incredible, incredible Indonesian food. Incredible. It is amazing.

BEN KISSEL

Weird. Strange.

MARCUS PARKS

Now at first the fear Pat and her girls had upon driving up the mountain was what they'd find when it came to carnage. That's what they're afraid of, what are we gonna find? Blood and guts? I don't know. Plane crash, who knows?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) I see a bit of an intestine, I see a bit of a lung.

BEN KISSEL

A rugby team eating each other, something could go horribly wrong.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. But when Pat got her first good look at the mountain tops, that fear shifted. Instead of the fiery wreckage of a plane crash, Pat and her daughter saw sitting at the closest peak, a round reddish orange bright ball floating in the sky.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(singing) Fire in the sky.

MARCUS PARKS

Pat opened the door to get a better look and found that whatever this object was, it made no sound and had smaller white lights dancing around it. Like other orb-like craft we've spoken of recently, particularly in the Pennsylvania Bigfoot UFO flap, the object changed color from red to yellow to white, then back to red.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I dislike these stories too because they are so similar. And Pat had nothing to do with UFOs whatsoever.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

She was a country housewife out there, trained in first aid which is great but definitely not interested in UFOs.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And so seeing this is kind of fun because why would this woman lie? We'll get into it.

BEN KISSEL

Also if you do have anything on your body that turns a different shade of green, yellow, red, it's melanoma.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's a melanoma.

BEN KISSEL

Or it's mesothelioma.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Perfect.

MARCUS PARKS

Mesothelioma.

BEN KISSEL

Wow, you know how to say it after all your doctor's visits.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's all it takes!

BEN KISSEL

What else have they asked you? Did you go to Camp Lejeune?

MARCUS PARKS

You go to enough pulmonologists, you're gonna pick up a thing or two.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Wow. It's like you're one.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

He's the closest thing that we have to one.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah, I'm gonna ask him about my lungs.

BEN KISSEL

If we were all stranded on an island, you are a doctor because you're the weakest and you've seen the most.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Didn't you technically, isn't that how you got Carolina? You said like oh I'm a lung doctor, let me check your lung fronts.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

BEN KISSEL

We don't know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then you examined her boobies to see whether or not they were properly supporting her lungs.

MARCUS PARKS

Absolutely not, that's a horrible story to make up. That's a horrible story. You're a horrible man. Henry, you're a horrible man!

BEN KISSEL

We're gonna get back to the Berwyn incident. But no, their first date was weird. He started talking about bones and she didn't leave.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes of course.

BEN KISSEL

And he's like she's the one.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It was on brand.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Now after watching the object for what felt like about 15 minutes, Pat and her daughters decided that this was definitely not a plane crash and it appeared as if there were already people on the scene doing something, although it was unclear what. So Pat and her daughters drove home, leaving the object behind in their rear view mirror. Now Pat's story lay fallow for a long time until it was finally unearthed by an extraordinary woman, Margaret Fry, considered by some to be the great grandmother of UK ufology.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

She is legit. I love her work, she's earnest, she's very similar to what's her name from... Mrs. Potts, who was the talking pot? Murder She Wrote.

MARCUS PARKS

Murder She Wrote, yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Angela Lansbury.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Angela Lansbury. Right, I'm sorry. I didn't reference right. If you saw me, you see the video-

BEN KISSEL

Just with boobs. Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because she is built like a teapot.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

So you wanna put a nipple on Mrs. Teapot.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But she is very, very interesting because she's just cool, man. She's a fucking UFO gangster.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh yeah, she is, man.

BEN KISSEL

Very Guy Fieri of you.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. Yeah, she's fucking out of bounds.

BEN KISSEL

She's out of bounds.

MARCUS PARKS

Well raised in India during the British occupation where she barely escaped with her life at the age of 21 during the uprisings-

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, people got all mad.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, real mad.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, they were upset.

BEN KISSEL

They're like this is our land. And then the British are like but what if we have it? And then there's a whole thing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I don't know what that's like.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I don't know.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Margaret, she was raised in India. India was all she knew until she was 21 years old.

BEN KISSEL

Well if she wants good Indian food, go to England. We know that.

MARCUS PARKS

So when Margaret finally arrived in England for the first time, she saw it as a dreary, dreadful place. It's rainy. It's not India.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's not India, that's for certain.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. So she spent her life looking to the stars as a way to return to the magic of India.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I've heard India is beautiful. I would love to go.

BEN KISSEL

I'd love to go. My older brother was there. He's 6'10". He's been all over Asia, he's been to Dubai. So I know I can fit. He's my little tall drone.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's tests.

BEN KISSEL

I'm like can I fit? He's like I fit. I'm like ooh, I can fit.

MARCUS PARKS

Well among some of the earliest UFO researchers in her neck of the woods, Margaret trained with such British UFO greats as the aristocrat Brinsley Le Poer Trench, the 8th Earl of Clancarty.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. It's a lot of names.

BEN KISSEL

Oh wow.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's a lot of names. We were bringing up, was it Dennis Kucinich earlier with the tall, hot, sexy wife?

BEN KISSEL

Still in shock.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It just seems very analogous.

BEN KISSEL

You're talking to the 8th Earl of Dork.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, great.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

Clancarty.

BEN KISSEL

Wow, Clancarty. Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

But Trench was also vice president of BUFORA, a member of the Ancient Astronaut Society, and the editor of the Flying Saucer Review.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So you telling me he fucks.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, I like him. He's interesting.

MARCUS PARKS

Well the Earl's specialty was a focus on hollow earth studies, which lead him-

BEN KISSEL

This is... Go on.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey, this was his profession.

BEN KISSEL

No, this is what I want the royalty to be doing.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yes.

BEN KISSEL

This is what they should be doing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Just focus on hollow earth.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well that led him to the controversial conclusion that the world was not spherical, not flat, but rather sphere-ish.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is what I'm talking about with ufologists.

BEN KISSEL

What does that mean?

MARCUS PARKS

It's round on the sides but flat at the top and the bottom.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's this ufology thing where they have to pick one very highly specific idea because that sort of makes sense. We're a spinning ball, we could maybe be... But how flat? Are we talking like full on hamburger shape?

MARCUS PARKS

Pretty flat.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's dumb.

MARCUS PARKS

Maybe not like a mesa on top and on bottom, maybe not tabletop, but pretty flat.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Flat enough.

MARCUS PARKS

Flat enough, yeah. Flat enough where when the astronauts went out and took the picture of the big blue marble, he was surprised.

BEN KISSEL

Oh wow.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Truly whatever it takes. You should not have systematic sex with children.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm fine with it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. It is bizarre though because the only people that could ever believe what he's saying is a child.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Because he's a moron.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But they just were friends. Those were his academian peers.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I like that ufologists choose majors.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, I get it. It love it.

MARCUS PARKS

I want them to.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's just more saying UFO or it's saying specific words that they decide are the way you say the words.

MARCUS PARKS

Affectation.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

You fight about that, you don't get to the substance.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's the idea.

MARCUS PARKS

For example, I love saying ufologist.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You do.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, that's my thing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You're allowed to. I've actually given up that ghost a long time ago because I'm not gonna control everyone's language because I'm not fucking some kind of Twitter person.

BEN KISSEL

No, you're not.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You could say you-eff-ologist even though it makes me mad.

MARCUS PARKS

It's oo-fologist.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whatever you say, you are allowed to say. But you notice that's how against it, I can't even say it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, I know. But I'm just happy to say I won.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, sure. You know what? The one thing is about getting older, choose your battles.

BEN KISSEL

Let go. Let go. Yeah, that's pretty cool, Marcus. The way you say that is pretty cool.

MARCUS PARKS

But regardless of how unconventional the beliefs of the Earl of Clancarty might be, Earl Brinsley Trench was still a highly respected name in British ufology when he was alive. And Margaret, the founder of the Welsh Fellowship of Independent Ufologists, she was one of his top proteges.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) The reason why they call me the Trench is because the clavicles between my excrement areas, they're so far apart. I do not need to wipe.

BEN KISSEL

Deep perineum.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It's all deep. One deep elongated furry furrow. That if you were to gaze upon it, you would know it is too late for me because you are either my dead wife or my proctologist.

BEN KISSEL

Well fantastic.

MARCUS PARKS

Now Margaret began collecting witness statements concerning the Berwyn Mountain incident soon after discussing it with Pat Evans almost 20 years after the event. And she soon found that northern Wales was quite busy that night in 1973.

BEN KISSEL

Cool.

MARCUS PARKS

A local hotel manager said that he remembered the incident well because he had been host to military men that night who were all having interesting conversations.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Is this Skyrim?

BEN KISSEL

What's happening?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Great.

MARCUS PARKS

The hotel manager-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

The innkeep?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, the innkeep actually has some interesting information.

BEN KISSEL

They know a lot.

MARCUS PARKS

Got any work for me? And he does!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's awesome.

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

He has a mission. The hotel manager said he overheard these military men talking about sealing off an area so they could shoo away people. And they needed to shoo away people without explanation, get in your car, turn around, get out of here.

BEN KISSEL

But why?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) Because I just wanted to give a bit a bit of a drivey drive. I was walking around here with my car, using my car as my feet, and I was using my eyes with a bit of a looky loo there, Mr. Military Police Officer. Right, Ben?

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely. Very good impression.

MARCUS PARKS

Well this conversation was memorable, he said, doubly memorable because there were Americans mixed in with the British.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah, because as Russ Kellett says, (British accent) UK can't sneeze without the US saying it's okay.

MARCUS PARKS

yeah. That doesn't make it... You can't sneeze without the US-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

His his-

BEN KISSEL

That's a whole thing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Russ Kellett, we'll get to him.

BEN KISSEL

I thought they were telling us what to do.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love him, I love his energy.

MARCUS PARKS

His energy is amazing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

The only way I can really say-

BEN KISSEL

Seems like he's upset.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

In ufology, he's the one of all of the characters I have met in our travels in this world, intellectual travels, I say bless his heart.

BEN KISSEL

Interesting.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because yes, he's an interesting storyteller.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Great.

MARCUS PARKS

Well additionally, in the hours before the incident, two long haul truckers claimed to have seen a cigar-shaped UFO over a nearby lake while they were on the way to the pub.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And this is not counting too a flap of ghost helicopters. This is another, Nick Redfern was one of those guys, he comes into the story. But he's obsessed with-

BEN KISSEL

How did we get to ghost helicopters?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Phantom helicopters are another thing, kind of like what we dealt with during quarantine over Denver. Remember the drones that were flying around and they weren't connected to any... They were flying in patterns and we couldn't find the origin of them and no private company was coming out saying what they were and the US was saying they are not ours and blah, blah, blah. There was something like that that was also happening in the UK where you'd see these like unmarked silent helicopters going everywhere. And he said that that would proceed a black-

BEN KISSEL

But they were tangible helicopters.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well according to him, it's people seeing things in the sky that look like helicopters but are not making sounds.

MARCUS PARKS

Well these guys that were out on their way to the pub sitting next to the lake, they said they watched this cigar-shaped UFO for a bit then continued on their way. But when they got to the pub, they found that they had been missing hours of time because the pub was closed.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And they definitely weren't drunk before.

BEN KISSEL

No way.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But missing time comes up a lot.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yes. And of course when you are drinking, this is one of the more reliable you can have as a drunk is to make sure you get to the bar on time.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That is the one thing you gotta do.

BEN KISSEL

So that's the one thing you do know how to do.

MARCUS PARKS

Now as Margaret started putting together a fuller picture of Berwyn Mountain, she contacted her boss at BUFORA, a woman named Jenny Randles who was also receiving information about Berwyn Mountain. Or she was at least receiving stories of aliens in Wales.

BEN KISSEL

And of course BUFORA, it's a fantastic makeup company for ghosts.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

For your butts. Oh, I thought it was gonna be for butts.

BEN KISSEL

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Makeup for the outside of a butt.

BEN KISSEL

No. And the nice thing about selling makeup to ghosts is you don't gotta have no product.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh shit. A scam. Are we scamming the afterlife?

MARCUS PARKS

Boo-FORA. Now I get.

BEN KISSEL

Boo!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah but it's BU in this.

BEN KISSEL

I actually thought of a joke yesterday. I said oh, great Halloween costume right off the top of my head. Boonie Raitt. Ghost Bonnie Raitt. I can come up, you have a fucking Halloween costume, you need an idea? You let me know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's April.

MARCUS PARKS

That's good though.

BEN KISSEL

I know it's April. That's why I was like I'll file it away. That's for the old file there.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. BUFORA is the British UFO Research Association?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well Jenny Randles had received a note at BUFORA supposedly from the Aerial Phenomenon Network, the APN. This note said that tall humanoid aliens traveling in a flying saucer had landed in North Wales.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, we back to some tall whites.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Along with the letter was a bizarre tape that I would pay at least 20 bucks to own.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

It sounds so cool.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

It's sort of musique concrète featuring samples of broadcast UFO stories, drunk Welshmen, Nazi marching songs, and an American voice claiming to be the commander of the APN.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This just sounds like your college radio station.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh man, it sounds so cool. This is the stuff that I listen to at home.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Nazi marching songs?

MARCUS PARKS

Well if it's a part of a musique concrète.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now are you saying Nazi marching songs are just German marching tunes that took place during the 30s and the 40s?

MARCUS PARKS

Probably songs, marching tunes that became associated with Nazis. Because the Nazis I don't think had a lot of composers contemporarily.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Like Toot Toot Goes The Jew Jew. And there is Everybody Run From Us, Ee Suck. Remember that song?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love that marching song.

BEN KISSEL

It's called Pumped Up Kicks. Yes. Well that's exciting, Marcus. Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

That will be the new exercise craze, the Nazi marching song.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Honestly it's good for the hamstrings. Get those legs up.

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely.

MARCUS PARKS

Now first Randles dismissed the tape and the letter. But when Margaret Fry called with the story of Pat Evans, Randles realized that some of the statements and the ramblings meshed with Pat's tale, starting to all come together. Now from there the story seemed to take on a life of its own. One night while Margaret was photocopying an artist's illustration of Pat's description of the craft, the thing she saw up on the mountain, the clerk at the shop said that she too had been at Berwyn Mountain that evening and had followed that same object until police turned her back at a roadblock.

BEN KISSEL

Cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Now for years, Margaret made Berwyn Mountain her pet project and she became known around Wales as the UFO lady. Unfortunately though not much more information came for the next five years until a source passed along information that had been allegedly collected from a high ranking military officer.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And that is a sentence that has appeared in ufology since the dawn of ufology.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

An off the record memory-

BEN KISSEL

High ranking.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

From a dying high ranking military officer.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now I just wish one day, maybe I'll set it all up, I'll have like secret footage of my home. Because Russ Kellett too also has a bunch of UFO footage that no one's allowed to see until he dies. And it'd just be nice, like all these secrets, the CIA guys always like shooting their shot, one last grift right before they die. I do love it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Well this officer said oh man, wouldn't it be cool if we found out years from now that all CIA officers signed a contract that said right before you die you have to throw one more wrench into the works?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That would be incredible.

BEN KISSEL

They might, they might.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well I think it's just a part of the... You have to be a professional troll to want to be in the CIA.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then you know what they say, they never retire.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Never retire. The most recent Pentagon leak, that was a 21 year old hanging out at his mom's house.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, trying to impress other morons on Discord.

BEN KISSEL

Isn't that funny?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's interesting to see how these massive conspiracies just come from shithead friendless nerds.

BEN KISSEL

But it does show you though you don't have to be hanging out with the higher echelon to have some secret evidence or information.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, it just shows how lax all the security is, the fact that you can even get to the documents.

MARCUS PARKS

You know what this guy is showing me? You know what I think is gonna be the downfall of civilization?

BEN KISSEL

What?

MARCUS PARKS

Wieners.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Wieners!

BEN KISSEL

It's wieners.

MARCUS PARKS

It's gonna be wieners.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Nazis were wieners.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

As in hot dogs?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

MARCUS PARKS

Dudes who are wieners.

BEN KISSEL

Mean wieners.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Mean, weak people.

MARCUS PARKS

Wieners.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Wieners.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, wieners. They're gonna be the downfall of all of us.

BEN KISSEL

We need an acronym for it. All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why we gotta bully more wieners.

BEN KISSEL

Well that's what makes a wiener. That's the problem.

MARCUS PARKS

Nah, you're born a wiener.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Sorry, but you're born a wiener.

BEN KISSEL

Well all right. Let's cook these dogs.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Cook these dogs!

MARCUS PARKS

Well this officer, this high ranking military officer, he said that immediately after the explosion, he and a small team had driven up to the mountain to investigate. And this was odd because the men were already on alert to participate in a quote unquote "exercise" near Berwyn Mountain that night, placing them in a prime spot to jump on the scene. Oh my god, it's such a coincidence.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

What a coincidence.

MARCUS PARKS

What a coincidence.

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

When this thing lands on the mountain, crashes into the mountain, there's already military officers in a remote part of northern Wales ready to jump.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is where Margaret Fry crushed this. So she found that there was records saying there was an exercise going on. She corroborated these stories. She went and got these various witnesses together. A bunch of people saw the same fucking thing.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They saw it that night. And then corroborating, I mean whatever you think about the innkeep, I mean obviously his side quest is a pain in the ass.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But once you complete it-

BEN KISSEL

I dunno what the side quest is.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

When you complete it, you just get a bag of marmite that's on the end of a dildo and you can shove it up your ass. It's a special item, it's a rare item.

MARCUS PARKS

A rare item.

BEN KISSEL

Nice.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But she put this all together in a way that this is where we see kind of a grounding here. There's several people all saying the same story in a very small community.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But it's rural.

MARCUS PARKS

It's rural. Real rural.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So it's not like they're all hanging out all the time. So it's interesting.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I just find it makes it compelling.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I love it.

MARCUS PARKS

Well incredibly, this military officer said that when they got to the peak after the explosion, they found a number of oblong coffin-like boxes. These boxes were collected and driven to a top secret chemical and biological research facility in Wiltshire named Porton Down. Porton Down is a science park as the British put it, the oldest chemical warfare facility in the world.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They call that a science park?

MARCUS PARKS

Science park, yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Science park. See how much more fun that is than fucking atrocious creators of chemicals that are going to end the world?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) We got over here a bit of a carousel of death. And right over here is the cotton candy of malice.

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

It's like in Washington DC where we've got the national mall, that's not a mall.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's not a mall. The only thing they're selling is a fake story of the history in this country!

BEN KISSEL

But it is a mall in the sense, in the truest sense it is a mall.

MARCUS PARKS

How?

BEN KISSEL

A mall doesn't necessarily have to-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

A mall is a gathering area.

BEN KISSEL

It doesn't have to have Nordstrom at it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We subjugated the mall.

MARCUS PARKS

But that's what I mean is that we-

BEN KISSEL

You have a New Jersey sense of what a mall is.

MARCUS PARKS

No, I have an American sense of what a mall is.

BEN KISSEL

No, the Washington Memorial, that mall is more of a mall than a mall.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'll tell you what though-

MARCUS PARKS

I'm talking about the appropriation of terms and how the English language changes over time.

BEN KISSEL

I think this fucking New York Times bestseller just lost.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. Good work. Got him against the fucking ropes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, you got me. Thanks. Good job.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

What the mall needs though is a BUFORA.

BEN KISSEL

I agree with that. There's nothing in here.

MARCUS PARKS

Well this place, Porton Down, it's pretty much the British version of Edgewood. This is where they conducted chemical experiments on quote unquote "volunteer soldiers".

BEN KISSEL

Oh man, no.

MARCUS PARKS

And these of course resulted in the death of at least one soldier who had liquid nerve gas dripped into his arm.

BEN KISSEL

Jesus.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now when you say nerve gas-

MARCUS PARKS

I mean sarin.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh okay. So we're gonna put this juice in me. So is this the type of thing that's gonna calm my nerves?

BEN KISSEL

I don't think so. Did MK Ultra go to Europe?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well as far as we know.

BEN KISSEL

So this isn't like-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sorry, I mean I don't know. We're talking about where the money, money is sloshed around.

MARCUS PARKS

The Canadians certainly participated in it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Used it, yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Maybe I'm incorrect, they might have MK Ultra money but it's different because they're technically doing different things here. This is just straight up chemical warfare which MK Ultra didn't fully get into.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is where it started.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well the thing is about nerve-

BEN KISSEL

It was psychological warfare.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Well the thing is about nerve gas, they were using sarin, this is the same stuff used by Aum Shinrikyo decades later.

BEN KISSEL

Ugh god.

MARCUS PARKS

You know in Edgewood, the military facility Edgewood did the same thing in America where we tested this nerve gas. Because nerve gas was something that was discovered after WWII, it's something the Nazis were working on.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

God. they must've been so mad.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because oh man, we could have used so much of this gas earlier.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

That would have been good. Could have used that a couple of months ago.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, the Nazis hadn't quite gotten a chance to use it yet. They were gonna use it but then they didn't.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah because we know that was a part of the end games were going to be they were just gonna gas everybody.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

No, they wouldn't do that. No!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I know.

MARCUS PARKS

And so the British and the Americans had to do tests on it and see like oh my god, what does it do? And Porton Down is where the British did their tests. But that is to say Porton Down is considered a nefarious place full of mystery and conspiracy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) It seems to make your nervy nerves a little cockamamie there, can't believe what we did there. Thought maybe you've got a bit of a nap, a bit of a sleep, but it turns out it's a bit of a dirt nap.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this experiment needed to happen. But that's okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, I mean we had to kill people so we could see how fast it could kill people.

MARCUS PARKS

We had to kill one. Okay please be fair. We had to kill one guy, one guy, not people.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Thank you.

MARCUS PARKS

Guy.

BEN KISSEL

That's a person.

MARCUS PARKS

That's a person.

BEN KISSEL

And when he looks in the mirror, that's people. That's people.

MARCUS PARKS

Now the military officer claimed that for some reason he was allowed to stick around while the scientists opened up these boxes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

What they found inside allegedly were the bodies of two dead aliens that matched the descriptions of alien grays. Presumably these had been failed decontamination chambers that were meant to keep the grays alive.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now everybody is like in these days, I could see how people are skeptical of these stories. But it's really interesting because it does come up a lot. Like if you talk about Roswell, which is still probably of all of the granddaddy cases, it's still kind of got a lot of concrete evidence attached to it. Well in terms of the people who've talked about it and the things that they've all said that they've seen. Now we talk about that book came out called 'Area 51' that talked about Roswell, that the real thing with Roswell is that there was surgically altered people that were presented in front of people as aliens. So it's strange to see that same thing happen here before that was common knowledge.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. This is 1973.

BEN KISSEL

70s, yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So maybe it's one of two things, is that one, it's either aliens and they're seeing aliens, or two, are a lot of people surgically altering humans to look like aliens to prank other people. And then I guess there's a third where all of this is fake.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Right. They should have gotten Jimmy Savile to fix it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I wish he could.

BEN KISSEL

Come on.

MARCUS PARKS

Now Margaret was skeptical of the alien coffin story because the source that passed it along refused to meet in person. Another researcher did say that he vetted the source and confirmed his credibility but the source had remained anonymous to maintain his safety. Or so he claimed.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But Margaret was torn.

MARCUS PARKS

Yes, she was torn. And Margaret certainly had her detractors. A skeptic and all around pain in the ass named Andy Roberts went so far as to publish a book debunking Berwyn Mountain.

BEN KISSEL

I can see his butt, like the start of Gremlins where the woman's all upset that she didn't get something from the bank, I can just see his big butt in khakis walking around.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, excellent, another fantasy dispelled.

BEN KISSEL

I mean honestly, what's worse than being a ufologist? Being a professional debunker.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Unfortunately yes.

BEN KISSEL

The whole world's debunk. We know.

MARCUS PARKS

Although I do agree with you that most professional debunkers do have big butts.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm sure.

BEN KISSEL

Of course they do!

MARCUS PARKS

I don't know that for a fact but I see it.

BEN KISSEL

I could see it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's their grounding.

BEN KISSEL

That is their grounding.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Andy Roberts claimed that the light that Pat Evans saw-

BEN KISSEL

Sure, what have you got, Andy?

MARCUS PARKS

Light in a tent, bunch of hunters.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

A light in a tent.

MARCUS PARKS

Hunters, they're camping out and they got a light in a tent.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well because it's very similar to when you talk stories about phantom lights where they wonder what it is. Some people just say is it just lights on a hill that you're seeing that are refracted because of something, because something with the air is making them appear to float or whatever.

BEN KISSEL

Gasses.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Or earth farts, yeah. Literal earth farts. Is that what they're seeing? And he just doesn't like UFOs.

MARCUS PARKS

No, he doesn't.

BEN KISSEL

I think it's more destabilizing to society thinking that all of this could be caused just by a couple of campers with a goddamn magnum flashlight. I like the idea of a UFO better.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, of course.

BEN KISSEL

Because otherwise what are we doing here? We're very fragile if that's gonna have upheaval for an entire community.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Seriously. Yeah exactly. More and more I research and more and more I read about these things, it's just more getting into what is consciousness?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Why do we receive reality the way that we do? How we generate reality as we're swimming in it, we're constantly generating it. And it's very flimsy.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's just kind of there. We're just all relying on the 3 lbs of goop between our fucking eyeballs and our asshole.

BEN KISSEL

And you better give credit to Jerry Springer for that final thought.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, I mean Andy Roberts, he actually personally attacked Margaret, he personally attacked her. He said that her research was nothing more than quote "the rantings of an old lady".

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I like Margaret though.

MARCUS PARKS

I love Margaret.

BEN KISSEL

What has this asshole done?

MARCUS PARKS

Nothing.

BEN KISSEL

He's just a destroyer.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He just doesn't like UFOs.

MARCUS PARKS

He doesn't. Luckily though Margaret had her allies. Whilst Andy was all up in Margaret's ass using debunking research that guess what, has been debunked itself.

BEN KISSEL

Ooh!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now who's sadder than the redebunker? That's the saddest man.

BEN KISSEL

Wow. That's true.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's the Rorschach of the ufology world, a man that goes and debunks the debunks. You just don't want to be anywhere near that guy.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I like him, we need him in his way.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Sure, kind of.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I use 'a man' on purpose, I say 'his' on purpose.

MARCUS PARKS

He's the rebuttal. That's the thing, you gotta sic your attack dog somewhere.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And your rebuttal man, now that's the attack dog.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then what you do is the rebuttal man, he's doing stuff and the whole thing being like you use him to say all this stuff and be like but I don't really depend on Greg because Greg's kind of unreliable. But still he's doing good work. Good work, Greg.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Good work.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Margaret's best ally was a young independent researcher named Scott Felton, and he decided that maybe Margaret had missed something on Berwyn Mountain. Not that she wasn't doing a good job but there was a lot of information to sift through.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And there really is like kind of a rom-com in here if you want.

MARCUS PARKS

A little bit of a Harold and Maude?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh man. This is perfect, this spooky Harold and Maude.

BEN KISSEL

And again because it is ufology, this isn't the fucking OJ Simpson murder scene.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

BEN KISSEL

You don't have to be... You make mistakes sometimes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Sometimes you just wipe up a bunch of DNA.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

There's room for speculation in UFOs.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

It's okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Margaret and Scott began working together in 2014 and after going back through her notes, Scott found a phone call that Margaret had taken from a man named Michael Saville. No relation.

BEN KISSEL

It's just so bad for anyone named Fogel or...

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We're not seeing a lot of Hitlers anymore.

BEN KISSEL

I think that last name is gone. It's just you never want that to happen.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Scott figured Saville was worth a second look and as it turned out, this man was the confirmation for Pat's story that Margaret and Scott had needed the entire time. See Saville and his wife lived on a cottage with a clear view of the mountain tops, they lived above the village. They were enjoying a nice night reading at home when their walls began to tremble and shake. So Saville went outside to see what was what.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) I should give a bit of a looky loo at the shakety up there.

MARCUS PARKS

Bippity bop.

BEN KISSEL

It sounds like such a fun night though because I'm thinking they got a little fire going.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We had earthquakes the other night but it's scary.

BEN KISSEL

I haven't felt one of these fucking earthquakes. I was promised earthquakes when I moved out here.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You'll get them.

BEN KISSEL

I know there's been like eight, I haven't felt any of them.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You just have to be a less good sleeper like me.

MARCUS PARKS

Why is it always at night? Why is it always when everyone's asleep?

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, why does it know?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is scary when it does for real happen. You'll see, you'll be scared.

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

BEN KISSEL

I hope to be.

MARCUS PARKS

All right, yeah. I'm looking forward to a solid 4.3.

BEN KISSEL

I mean he's a Subaru guy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Please stop wishing for it. It's very scary. I was in the theater when we saw Midsommar when we had that legit one a couple of years ago and I had just eaten a 40 mg edible. And it was just when they all arrived at the cult. And then it felt we were like there was something weird was going on and all of a sudden the movie froze and the building just went back and forth. And it was scary.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, of course.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You'll see, you'll love it.

BEN KISSEL

I don't want to ruin the end of Midsommar.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But everybody survives and it's great.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Well actually the big surprise is the whole thing took place during December.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Thank you! Who debunks the debunkers?

MARCUS PARKS

Well to Saville's surprise, when he walked outside he was faced with the same bright circular light that Pat Evans saw. It was so bright and large from his vantage point that he thought the world was coming to an end.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Damn.

MARCUS PARKS

10 minutes later though, Saville claimed that the object silently sunk below the horizon and disappeared. And so after hearing Saville's side of the story, and I love what Scott did here, he connected when and where Saville saw the object to when and where Pat saw the object. And Scott found that their timelines and sightlines dovetail perfectly. He proved that when the object sunk out of Saville's view, it entered Pat view, meaning that at the very least two people did see the same thing that night, whatever that thing may have been.

BEN KISSEL

Cool.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

To me when you talk about UFOs, that's when it starts to get credible.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Like the Ariel School phenomenon. I still feel like the Ariel school phenomenon is one of the the best proving that something happened in that moment of all those stories is that story.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Where you just have a bunch of people all saying they saw the same shit. The group abduction in Coronado. Like yes, even though most of it that we focused on was the man showing his penis to his roommate that he was forced to have on this group trip.

BEN KISSEL

That's kinda funny.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Which is the best part of that entire story.

MARCUS PARKS

It really is.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But the idea of everybody seeing and experiencing something in a small period of time. It's very interesting. The Hudson Triangle.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And this is cool because it's two people telling independent stories that are giving different timelines, they don't know each other.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

And he's actually able to use triangulation, actually use calculations to prove that both of them are telling the truth. He's corroborating evidence here.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

MARCUS PARKS

It's fucking great. But concerning what that thing may have been, there is a bit of a fly in the ointment in the form of a psychology professor named Dr. Michael Persinger.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Actually, time for me to get involved here. I thought I saw a smile so I decided to arrive and say I farted in here so that you can all frown.

BEN KISSEL

There he is.

MARCUS PARKS

I like Dr. Persinger.

BEN KISSEL

I know you would, Marcus.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

I like him, I like him.

BEN KISSEL

It's because you wanna be a professor when you grow up.

MARCUS PARKS

Well I mean I thought about it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, when he grows up.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

When I grow up.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's still a young boy.

BEN KISSEL

He is a young boy.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's only 40.

BEN KISSEL

Well they say we're gonna live to 100, so we're not even halfway dead yet.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Fuck. I gotta think about my finances.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, you really got to pay attention.

BEN KISSEL

Fuck. Ah shit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ah shit.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Dr. Michael Per-sing-er... Well Dr. Michael Per-singe-er... It's a very difficult name. I didn't even think about how to say that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Persinger.

MARCUS PARKS

Persinger. Dr. Michael Persinger, he made distinct links between UFO sightings and the type of earthquakes that were felt just before the sighting of the glowing object.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

And Persinger, he was no fuddy duddy dickhead. He's not a Philip Klass, he's not a Joe Nickell, he's not out to ruin everyone's fun.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

He's not of the opinion that people are just stupid or gullible like a lot of these other assholes. He is of the opinion that there must be some scientific reason why so many people throughout history have reported paranormal experiences.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

See this is the kind of approach I appreciate.

MARCUS PARKS

Me too. I love this.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because it is there, this concept of the government's been gaslighting us for long enough, telling you we haven't seen anything and our eyes are wrong and again, we're idiots.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But yeah, we're idiots but for other reasons. You know what I mean? We try to kill ourselves with food, that's fine.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But this story, it's like at least like give me some kind of credit.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Show me that like no, it's a phenomenon happening. We just need to figure out what the hell it is.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And whether it either is a psychic phenomenon that is not wooey woo, just more of a lack of understanding of how our consciousness works, or if it's something natural, I'll take it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And that's what Doctor Persinger, that's what he devoted his entire life to, was trying to find that answer.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Paranormal experiences are real. Even though it's not necessarily paranormal, people are seeing something.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

And he tried to figure out why.

BEN KISSEL

Well that's just not a waste of a life at all.

MARCUS PARKS

No!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He doesn't get it.

MARCUS PARKS

No, it don't think it is!

BEN KISSEL

No.

MARCUS PARKS

No!

BEN KISSEL

No, he didn't waste his whole life.

MARCUS PARKS

No, not even close! No, it's not like he spent his entire life as a podcaster. And isn't that such a noble calling?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey! I have heard several people say I would have nothing to listen to while washing the dishes if it wasn't for you.

BEN KISSEL

Think of all the dishes that have been washed because of us.

MARCUS PARKS

That is true, that is true.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Well for example, Dr. Persinger was the inventor of something called the god helmet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, we're gonna use one.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, I already got a line on one.

BEN KISSEL

This is the famous god helmet.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. It used weak magnetic fields that produced mystical experiences and altered states. See it was Dr. Persinger's theory that paranormal experiences are examples of, get this, inter- hemispheric intrusions caused by vectorial hemisphericity.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, bro. Yeah, dude.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(fart sounds)

BEN KISSEL

Sounds like I just wasted a lot of money on fucking some big ass words, bro. Because you didn't fucking teach me shit, dude.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'll give you a PhD.

BEN KISSEL

Pretty hot and fucking stupid, you dickhead.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, fuck you.

MARCUS PARKS

Now that sounds very interesting and smart. It's does.

BEN KISSEL

it doesn't sound like anything. It doesn't sound like anything.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I do understand what it means. It means that it's the two loaves of our brains are talking to each other.

MARCUS PARKS

Inter-hemispheric, yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. They're talking to each other.

BEN KISSEL

Two sourdoughs.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

But they're intrusions. They're not supposed to, they're talking to each other in a bad way.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. They're fucking up.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Or again, is it fucking up or is that just how our brains work?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And like is that how we experience things that are in an interdimensional fashion?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I do think there's the other side of it where yes, you can reproduce it with the god helmet but it's also just how our brains work. So he's just showing it, being like so waves of these things, of we're sending these things purposely into our brain to create a fake mystical experience, maybe it's also just how our brain receives these kind of waves. And we decide whether or not that energy, is it from an intelligence source or is it just a natural expression of the universe?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I dunno. We gotta get some DMT up in here.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I've heard.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I gotta get some TNT.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Dr. Persinger, admittedly his theories were not able to be reproduced, they're not easily reproduced.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No. Well we know that, we just talked to the Newkirks, they use the god helmet all the time and they were always talking to gods inside their own brain.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But I think partly the reason why his research hasn't gotten larger, the bottom fell out of the parapsychology research funding after the 70s. During the 70s they really gave it a go and then they just stopped. It's like in Ghostbusters.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

They just don't have any use for him anymore.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh no.

MARCUS PARKS

And who cares if it doesn't really work most of the time? I say give him a few million and let him try.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You just gotta be careful Ray, if we're going to the private sector, they expect results.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And it's true. Because I wrote to Dr. Merlin Tuttle, we talked about this, the bat biologist, but I also wrote to the University of North Carolina because they had like an entire paranormal wing.

MARCUS PARKS

Parapsychology.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Parapsychology wing. And I was obsessed with it. And then I didn't get anything back. And then it all closed down. And it turns out I was writing to things that were from books that were like years old. I didn't know.

BEN KISSEL

I could see that.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

You gotta write to Disney Adventures.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I did!

BEN KISSEL

Yes. I submitted a couple of stories.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I loved Disney Adventures.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I think I wrote to Omni a couple of times.

BEN KISSEL

What is that?

MARCUS PARKS

It was a science magazine.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. And just being like how do I make my dick bigger? How do I get girls to like me?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. It's still pretty like small. How do I make it bigger? Because it's like they say it's gonna get bigger but I don't believe them.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, it will. It does.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I need results here.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

MARCUS PARKS

All right.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

All right.

MARCUS PARKS

But concerning Berwyn Mountain, Dr. Persinger said that seismic stresses, ie earthquakes, can produce electrical effects that produce luminosities and electromagnetic disturbances through the ionization of air.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Static electricity caused by plates.

MARCUS PARKS

And this is what could possibly create the bright luminous globs that could be interpreted as the glowing orb UFO that we see again and again and again.

BEN KISSEL

I mean my little understanding of what's happening right now with the study of the earth itself, it does seem like there's some funky things going on and it's much shallower than we thought.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We don't know anything.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, we don't know shit.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I mean this would explain the soundless nature of these orbs.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Everyone says when they see the orbs, they say it makes no sound. It would explain their erratic movements which would give it the appearance of being piloted.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It was called the Busey effect.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Really?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, I was just saying how Gary Busey was sort of an unpredictable human being.

MARCUS PARKS

An erratic man.

BEN KISSEL

Unpredictable.

MARCUS PARKS

And still is an erratic man.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh very much so.

MARCUS PARKS

Very erratic man.

BEN KISSEL

He's a good person.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, you give him a football helmet, he'll just start ramming you.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He'll kill you.

BEN KISSEL

Of course he would.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

He's a good person.

MARCUS PARKS

He is. Yeah. False expectations appearing real. That's FEAR.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I always forget what it means.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. But concerning what people feel when they see these kinds of things, Dr. Persinger said that when he exposed subjects to these kinds of electrical fields and labs, the kinds that could have produced these glowing orbs, he said that it produced feelings of foreboding and dreamlike states.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, you'd be tripping balls.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Which a lot of people say they feel when they see these orbs.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We're just tripping on the fucking planet earth's fucking vibes, dog.

BEN KISSEL

That's why I've been fucking bringing my big old fucking road cone to every time they go fracking someplace, dude. And I just put it up there and I just suck on the earth, dude.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's the ultimate gravity bong.

BEN KISSEL

That's a gravity bong.

MARCUS PARKS

Now of course both these electrical fields and Dr. Persinger's god helmet don't work on everybody. Like for example, smug fuck Richard Dawkins who everyone fucking hates. He tried the god helmet-

BEN KISSEL

Does everybody hate Richard Dawkins?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's a polarizing figure on purpose.

MARCUS PARKS

He's a dickhead. He's a massive dickhead.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

He's dead now.

MARCUS PARKS

No, he's still alive.

BEN KISSEL

He's still alive?

MARCUS PARKS

I checked, he's in his 80s or his 70s.

BEN KISSEL

No shit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No way, I thought he was like cancers.

MARCUS PARKS

Dude, I checked earlier today. No, I checked earlier today.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Many cancers.

MARCUS PARKS

And he's still alive. He might have cancer.

BEN KISSEL

Who knows?

MARCUS PARKS

Well he said that when he put on the god helmet, the sensation he experienced, he experienced putting on a helmet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure, sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Fuck you.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But he doesn't want to be into it at all.

MARCUS PARKS

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Like he doesn't like the concept of gods or anything which I understand because organized religion, all the stuff that comes around it is societally bad.

MARCUS PARKS

Sure. But he believes in nothing and he spends his life telling people that they're stupid if they believe in anything.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Well that's not nice, Richard.

MARCUS PARKS

It's not nice. It turns people away.

BEN KISSEL

I think so. What was the other guy that was always doing that stuff? Died in his early 60s. Author. The famous anti-god guy there.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ronnie...

MARCUS PARKS

Christopher Hitchens?

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Some great stories about him.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, yeah.

BEN KISSEL

He could drink at lunch and still write a very good little article.

MARCUS PARKS

But it could be said that some people have the sort of brain that is physically able to process these experiences while others don't. Richard Dawkins doesn't have the ability to process it.

BEN KISSEL

He doesn't want to.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because we got fucking fluoride in the goddamn water.

BEN KISSEL

We're not doing the fluoride thing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And it's gunking up our goddamn pituitary glands.

MARCUS PARKS

Calcifying our third eye. This could be why some people like Henry have almost no paranormal experiences.

BEN KISSEL

Because of the fluoride?

MARCUS PARKS

Well just because his brain may not work that way.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why I don't drink water anymore.

BEN KISSEL

That's good. I'm onto Diet Coke now.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. It could also be why some people experience paranormal activity all the time, like the British lady with the posh accent who owns the thrift store in Burbank who told me that she spent her childhood being haunted by the savage ghost of Anne Boleyn.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah, I mean that's not an LA thing at all.

BEN KISSEL

No, that's a reputable source.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Or think about this, the explanation could be that these are actual UFOs, they're piloted craft, there's something in there.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure.

BEN KISSEL

Perhaps that's true.

MARCUS PARKS

Perhaps.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But I feel like I've said this constantly and it's hard because people like hardline opinions and they want you to be black and white about it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But I think that it's all many different phenomena happening at once.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Like maybe there is a natural arm of it where you are seeing what one pilot called I liked recently that we might be seeing something that is like the autoimmune system of the planet earth. Like we're seeing these things kind of show up because our presence there excites them and that they are not even really thinking, they're just some form of plasma that's activated by thought and arrives. And it zips around.

BEN KISSEL

What if the earth is an alien?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) What if we all are? What if we all are the bippity bop and we don't know?

MARCUS PARKS

But if we all are, then none of us are.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whoa.

BEN KISSEL

We are aliens though whenever we go to Mars.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But then maybe when we see the orbs, maybe they could be fucking a nuts and bolts UFO in some form of cloaking mechanism.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Or it's earth farts.

MARCUS PARKS

Could be, man. I'm tired of having opinions. I'm thinking about checking out all together.

BEN KISSEL

Dude I know, that's his whole entire thing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's slowly but surely coming all the way back around to a Robert Anton Wilson style like completely just ambivalent about all of them.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm a full agnostic about the entire phenomenon.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah man.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It could be anything.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

The more you learn, the less you know. Isn't that strange? Most important to learn.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Margaret Fry for example, she saw that there were plenty of UFO sightings that coincided with earthquakes. So what she decided was not that earthquakes were causing UFO phenomena, rather she decided that UFOs were drawn to earthquakes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sure.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And a lot of times they're seen over natural aquifers, we've talked about this, and hidden underground mountain chambers. A lot of times you go down and you'll find that these kind of seem to be attracting the phenomena.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Now for all her admitted naivete, Margaret Fry was still one of the more reasonable people involved in the Berwyn Mountain UFO incident, as were most of the people involved, most people. Even fucking Andy Roberts, big butt Andy.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Even he was reasonable.

BEN KISSEL

Again, no idea if he has a big butt but he is big butt Andy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he's got big butt attitude.

BEN KISSEL

Yes he does.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And not the good kind.

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely not.

MARCUS PARKS

But there are some investigators who claim that Berwyn Mountain was actually a skirmish in a vast cosmic war that we humans can scarcely comprehend.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Unless you go on Coast to Coast AM and really spell it out. Actually it's even less comprehensive.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because I listened to a couple of episodes of this young man, we'll call him a young man, speak on this subject.

BEN KISSEL

How old is he?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's old.

MARCUS PARKS

He's in his 50s. I think he was born in the like '64 or something like that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And he's an animated fellow. It's a bit difficult to follow.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But he's got a lot of ideas. We'll see.

BEN KISSEL

We'll see.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

What shakes out of this. Because a lot of it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

MARCUS PARKS

And actually throughout, I would like to know at certain times what sort of questions did George Noory ask Russ Kellett?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well this was actually he was a guest host. He was a guest host in this series and he was kind of like pushing back in a way that George never would.

MARCUS PARKS

Interesting.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He was asking some hard questions of Russ Kellett. And Russ Kellett was trying to kind of explain it but mostly it's come down to it's a psychic thing, baby.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You wouldn't get it if you wanted to.

BEN KISSEL

You don't understand.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But this is where we break it into. So we have just covered the actually fairly grounded story of could be several UFO sightings. Maybe there were some boots on the ground. We're talking about how Pat's story, eventually she would recant saying that she saw soldiers and it's kind of what she said that like maybe there was somebody involved in this, right.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

There was a lot of stories about military men coming in and out, people seeing a downed UFO on the side of the road, blah, blah, blah. But that's the grounded version.

MARCUS PARKS

Right.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now we're going into the expanded universe.

MARCUS PARKS

Yes.

BEN KISSEL

All right, let's get into it. I really hope that the aliens weren't listening to Nazi marching music before coming to earth.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I actually love Finnish jumping music.

MARCUS PARKS

Well in late 2018, a UFO researcher named Russ Kellett that we've mentioned a time or two, he came forward with what he claimed were leaked government documents about the Berwyn Mountain incident along with a map that showed the location of an alien base near Berwyn Mountain.

BEN KISSEL

Cool!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Absolute facts.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

It was Kellett's contention I think that the Berwyn Mountain UFO incident was an intentional operation by the military-

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

That involved an alien base located under the sea on the North Wales shoreline. And the explosions heard and the lights scene were the result of aerial battles between UFOs and British fighter jets.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No holes.

BEN KISSEL

Can you say under the sea right?

MARCUS PARKS

(Jamaican accent) Under the sea.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Thank you.

BEN KISSEL

Thank you.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, of course. Yes, of course. Located (Jamaican accent) under the sea in the North Wales shoreline.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And unfortunately Sebastian was lost in that war.

BEN KISSEL

He was.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And I can't believe it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just another victim of the underground bases vs up top stations of the United States military.

BEN KISSEL

I can't even look at lobsters because of the Fernandate for our stream when he had the isopod videos.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Disgusting.

MARCUS PARKS

Ugh.

BEN KISSEL

I can't look at food videos, I can't look at shellfish anymore.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You crushed it though.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, you crushed it.

BEN KISSEL

No, you did a great job. I was vomiting.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

People were really divided and that's where we need to be at.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Perfect, that's the division that we need.

MARCUS PARKS

Now according to Kellett, witnesses saw 80 flashes of light. I don't know how he made that assumption but he said 80 flashes of light off the North Wales coastline that night, the night of the incident.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So he sort of combines these stories together.

MARCUS PARKS

Perhaps you can help me to straighten this out a little bit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

A little bit.

MARCUS PARKS

Because it was quite confusing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So he starts with (British accent) well if you want to know what's going on with the Berwyn Mountain incident there, right, is what you gotta do there... A lot of theres and rights. Always a lot of theres and rights.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But is that (British accent) you gotta start from the very beginning which is wibbity wibbity wibbity wibbity wib, going back in time there. Oh there's Abraham Lincoln, there. Better not be, that's too far. Go back forward. Wibbity wibbity wibbity wibbity.

MARCUS PARKS

He says wibbity wibbity wibbity wib?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

They do say that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They do, they do.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But basically he says it starts with a series of military exercises.

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Where this began, where he believes that before anybody saw anything-

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Which is real, there was documentation that there were exercises going along the coast.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

And that's the the 80 flashes of light.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And what they were dropping was he said they were dropping these photo flash bombs.

MARCUS PARKS

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

To check for things under the sea.

MARCUS PARKS

Under the sea.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Gotcha.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They go, they drop these photo flash bombs, they basically illuminate everything from the top of the water down to the very bottom of the ocean. And they were taking a bunch of pictures. And he was saying that this was not disconnected from what would happen to the Berwyn UFO incident.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Not disconnected.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. He thinks that this is where they were chasing UFOs under the sea.

MARCUS PARKS

Right.

BEN KISSEL

I see.

MARCUS PARKS

So he's saying that... Okay, so the photo flash was the British military.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It happened a couple of days before.

MARCUS PARKS

Couple of days before.

BEN KISSEL

Couple of days before.

MARCUS PARKS

So there's the photo flashes going on and then the night of the incident, the night of the Berwyn Mountain incident, that was a fight between a UFO that came up out of the water and a fighter jet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Those were, yes, UFOs they scared out of the water up into the sky.

MARCUS PARKS

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then they sent, even though there was really not a lot of a paper trail for the actual fighting part of it because that's the one thing that's difficult is that they do fill out a lot of paperwork if they shoot one missile. There's a lot of paperwork that has gone into that.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So there's normally a long paper trail but there was none of that.

MARCUS PARKS

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But he's saying in my mind is that the they scared them up out of the water. Which is actually kind of fascinating.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah it is.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because now what we know about the so-called UFOs/USOs that our current military is investigating, we know that whatever this weird shit they're seeing is coming out of the water. So it does kind of parallel the story now.

MARCUS PARKS

Somewhat.

BEN KISSEL

Blow up the ocean.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And this story didn't come out until 2014.

BEN KISSEL

Blow up the ocean.

MARCUS PARKS

Well there is at least a tiny bit of corroboration from paranormal author Nick Redfern, who is of course one of our finest paranormal journalists, which is a statement I make without irony.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No!

BEN KISSEL

Yes. And of course you can listen to that fantastic interview we did about five years ago on our Patreon.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Good one.

MARCUS PARKS

See Redfern reported that an employee at a military facility nearby claimed that a security guard had seen a humanoid but distinctly non-human creature that quickly dematerialized right in front of him.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Bye bye!

BEN KISSEL

Dang. It's a great and a bad day to be a security guard because you're like what the fuck? But then it's gone, you're like not bad.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh no, the problem is like oh shit, now everybody's gonna know I'm fucking crazy.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, that's true.

MARCUS PARKS

He had a nervous breakdown and was never seen again.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey man, what would you do?

BEN KISSEL

(singing) Run to the hills.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Truly, if you're just hanging out and a guy walked into the house, full on fucking alien that just goes like bye bye! And then dematerializes. You're like that's it.

BEN KISSEL

Done. Done.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, that was the joke he used to make in one of the old live shows. Like if Freddie Freaker showed up in your kitchen-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Showed up. You'd lose your mind!

BEN KISSEL

You're done.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You'd be in a mental asylum for the rest of your life.

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely. You go to the woods, you go to the water, you get back to nature.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I need to think about my stress levels.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely. Yeah, you go off the grid.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well soon after, that same employee said that she heard her superior having a conversation with another high up, saying quote:

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) "We have no way of keeping these beings out. We just don't know what to do next. They can get in here. They can't get in anywhere."

BEN KISSEL

Oh my god, even after hours at the local pub?

MARCUS PARKS

Now if that is true, then that would mean that there is indeed a war of some sort going on between at least the aliens and the British.

BEN KISSEL

Why does it have to be a war? Can't we just get along?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whoa, hey there, beatnik.

BEN KISSEL

Come on.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Come on there, you some kind of peace guy?

MARCUS PARKS

Whoa. Wow.

BEN KISSEL

The fucking British are gonna lose.

MARCUS PARKS

But that's the thing. If it's with the British, then it's with us because of the special relationship.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Special relationship.

BEN KISSEL

We're bringing NATO into this?

MARCUS PARKS

You're forgetting about that. No, I'm talking about just America and the US, they're our special relationship. We don't have a special relationship with fucking Sweden.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah we do, we get chocolate and clocks.

MARCUS PARKS

Not as special as Britain.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

MARCUS PARKS

That's a special relationship. There's a name for it. They call it the special relationship.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. It's like we fuck them.

BEN KISSEL

No, a special relationship is when your uncle's just a bachelor, you know? We don't know what he does.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah. And that's his best friend Jeff that he's been living with for 25 years.

BEN KISSEL

25 years. Aren't they manly? They're manly men, aren't they?

MARCUS PARKS

Oh yeah they are.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But while we've heard a bit about the aerial battles and the possible espionage, what of the soldiers in this war?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Okay, this is where it really gets colorful.

MARCUS PARKS

I mean after all if there are aerial battles, naval battles, and breaches at military compounds, then that stands to reason this is a hot war.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ooh yes.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Smoking hot.

MARCUS PARKS

Hot war.

BEN KISSEL

More like navel battles and areola battles.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Titties in the bathtub.

BEN KISSEL

There we go.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Titties in the bathtub.

BEN KISSEL

Titties in a bathtub.

MARCUS PARKS

Hot wars, they usually have ground battles, don't they?

BEN KISSEL

Ooh yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Ground battles between troops.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah but the next war, yeah, we'll do one more ground battle but then the next war with sticks and stones.

BEN KISSEL

I actually took that from you and now I actually said it first so now you took that from me. Isn't that interesting?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I hate it.

BEN KISSEL

Also of course a hot war is when everyone wears lingerie.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, sexy war. Playboy bunny war.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well luckily for us as it just so happens, Russ Kellett, the same man who claimed to have blown the lid off the battle of Berwyn Mountain, he claims to have also been a ground troop in an intergalactic war between multiple alien races that's been raging for decades.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I ain't saying he's wrong.

BEN KISSEL

Well but, well...

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I ain't saying he's wrong. I refuse to say it.

BEN KISSEL

But any evidence? Is there evidence? Let's go for is there evidence?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey man, it's an astral thang.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah but at some point-

MARCUS PARKS

You wouldn't understand.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah but at some point I have to.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I tell you what though, if it does poke through to our reality, we're not gonna be too happy about that because they are gonna cause some true issues. Aliens full on hot war against the rest of us? We're gonna have to figure that out.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I don't know how well we'll do.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I don't know.

MARCUS PARKS

We shall merely be pawns in the game.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But this is where the Berwyn Mountain incident kind of follows this, he has this idea that this is like this massive battle. And so it is interesting because everybody else including the co-author of the Berwyn Mountain Incident that he was working with, Russ Kellett, who every time Russ Kellett speaks goes like Russ has got a lot of ideas. He's always jumping in being like yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, absolutely. But let's really get back to the Berwyn Mountain incident because there's a lot. Because what happened with Roswell too with Phil Corso.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And a lot of people that kind of jump onto the story that kind of has some weight, it's got some gumption.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

People are seeing these UFOs and they're all corroborating it. But he's just like (British accent) that's the thing there, it's just a bit of the surface war there. Because when you get down underneath the very peanut buttery essence of the entire thing there-

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) What you're gonna see is a bit of an intergalactic war, there.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I get it, I get it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Sounds fun. So he's fighting a war.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, he's fighting a war. Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Any tangible wounds?

MARCUS PARKS

No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just psychic.

MARCUS PARKS

Well okay, we'll get into it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, is there a wound?

MARCUS PARKS

Not necessarily wounds.

BEN KISSEL

A scar?

MARCUS PARKS

But effects. Let's say effects. He is affected.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he's affected.

MARCUS PARKS

Now Russ Kellett released two UFO books in 2021 but he's been around the British ufology scene since the 1990s.

BEN KISSEL

Two in one year.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now I'm getting mad actually with the oo-fology. Every once in a while I do it and I go ugh.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah I know, I get you. I love it. The first of those books was about Berwyn Mountain roughly. But the second tells an entirely different kind of story. That book is 'ET Rider'.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's kinda cool.

MARCUS PARKS

It's cool.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Russ Kellett's a cool guy.

BEN KISSEL

Kind of.

MARCUS PARKS

He's cool because he loves motorcycles, he's a motorcycle guy.

BEN KISSEL

No, I would assume so.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I guess when you hear him talk too because he'll punch you in the face.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. No, he's a down to earth guy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

He calls himself, he's a tell it like it is type of guy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He is!

MARCUS PARKS

He likes motorcycles. He likes making swords.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

He likes shooting stuff. He likes martial arts. He likes ancient mysteries. He likes paranormal stuff.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I like this guy.

MARCUS PARKS

He loves scooters.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love this scooter-loving paranormal believing guy.

BEN KISSEL

Tell it like it is guys, they mostly need to tell their father they love them.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whoa.

BEN KISSEL

Like they need to have that. They need to go through that otherwise because they're just telling it like they think.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, to the rest of us. Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Oh Yeah. But we shouldn't go too hard on Russ.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

MARCUS PARKS

Because he does say that he's been bullied most of his life.

BEN KISSEL

I just want to see a fucking wound. I don't even care if it's from a bully.

MARCUS PARKS

Although I will also say that this story definitely sounds like it comes from a guy who's been bullied most of his life, to be fair. Well in 'ET Rider', Russ Kellett claims to be a frontline soldier fighting for a mysterious race of aliens in a war in which he did not volunteer.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

See I find it interesting because it's cool because abductees talk all the time about like they get pulled into these scenarios and then the intelligences they're speaking to are saying stuff like you were chosen for a reason, you're a part of a familial line that we deal with, you're supposed to be a message giver.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then it always is like somebody with like white lady dreads that have turned into crystals.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Well oftentimes it's for people looking for a purpose.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is.

MARCUS PARKS

While a lifelong abductee, Kellett's experiences were not sexy and strange like David Huggins, rather his experience was closer to what Michael Castello experienced in New Mexico during the Dulce war.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ooh, Dulce.

MARCUS PARKS

Dulce, yes. Now Russ said that his first UFO memory was of his father and his coworkers discussing a cigar-shaped UFO, which would later be known in the local papers as the Thackley torpedo.

BEN KISSEL

Wait a second, we're talking about Jimmy Savile again?

MARCUS PARKS

However no information on the internet exists about said torpedo.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

I guess those records have not been scanned in yet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well it just seemed to be a tale amongst friends.

MARCUS PARKS

They said it was in the paper. The Thackley torpedo.

BEN KISSEL

It was in the paper.

MARCUS PARKS

Well as far as when Russ himself saw his first UFO, he said that it was seen around Heaton Woods. It was a round red and white object that floated for a few moments, moved by the clouds, and disappeared. This occurred in an area that the teenage kids called the clubby where they would drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and read porno mags. Me and my buddies, we had a similar place. We called it the place.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, the clubby. They're doing cool kid stuff.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But they're calling it the clubby.

BEN KISSEL

The clubby.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, I did the same thing. It was called my principal's office.

MARCUS PARKS

You looked at porno mags in your principal's office?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And smoked cigarettes, that's all we did. I sat on his knee.

MARCUS PARKS

Maybe a Penthouse or two.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, yeah. He loved reading the letters out loud. And then I got a B. And then he gave me straight Bs.

MARCUS PARKS

That's great.

BEN KISSEL

Straight Bs. Actually kinda well worth it.

MARCUS PARKS

That's not bad.

BEN KISSEL

No.

MARCUS PARKS

But for Russ, he said that it was at the clubby that he was first abducted by aliens in what seems to be the mid to late 70s. I say seems because Russ can be a little fuzzy when it comes to timelines. So I just kind of extrapolated from the year in which he was born.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's a very kind way to say it. Because I loved Russ Kellett's story and I loved the book, everything I read in the book, I loved to read.

MARCUS PARKS

ET Rider'.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. But he definitely has a very difficult time putting things in sequential order.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He bounces around a lot to the point where I was listening to a four hour Coast to Coast episode that took me like two days to listen to because I'd have to come back to me and like what is he talking about? Because all of a sudden he's talking about motorcycles and then he's talking about something else and you're like I don't understand.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, it sounds like he needs to stay focused.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He does.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

A little bit. But I understand, people say I have the same issue.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, I understand. Now Russ said that a bright light appeared above him and he soon found himself in a dentist's chair surrounded by figures who did the standard alien tests and probes while telling him you have nothing to fear, everything is fine.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And I love, again, I love all of our people from the isles of the UK and whatnot. But it's also sometimes difficult to understand them when they're saying words that are definitely English.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But you can't really understand. Because I just can't understand the accent.

BEN KISSEL

Well yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

It's hard.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So a lot of words, being like what is he talking about? Because he was saying pillars, I was like is that pillars or pillows? And then it was like, I think it was pillows.

MARCUS PARKS

It was dainty pillows?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

BEN KISSEL

Do the aliens have a different accent when they speak to them?

MARCUS PARKS

That's interesting. Are they American or are they British?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They code switching?

BEN KISSEL

They might be.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They might be.

BEN KISSEL

They probably know all the different languages on earth of course, I would assume.

MARCUS PARKS

It's like in Witcher when everyone else is British but the witchers have American accents.

BEN KISSEL

(B)There you go, it's just like that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Just like that.

MARCUS PARKS

Well once they were done with their tests and such-

BEN KISSEL

What were the tests again?

MARCUS PARKS

Just standard alien tests.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Alien tests.

MARCUS PARKS

Alien tests. You know the stuff, I don't need to go over it again.

BEN KISSEL

Gotchu.

MARCUS PARKS

You know what I'm talking about.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, they stab you up the nose, they play with your feet.

BEN KISSEL

Oh the UFOs are doing this stuff. Butt plugs and all that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, the aliens. All that, yeah. Regular stuff. But Russ said there was another bright light and he was suddenly back in the clubby. It was hours after his last earthly memory, missing time. Now once Russ turned 16, he got a Suzuki motorbike and began experiencing episodes missing time while he was riding home from work.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sadly what I know the most from this whole story is Russ breaking down how he got to buy the motorbike back from his father after his father lent him money to go into motorbike school.

BEN KISSEL

What does that have to do with anything though?

MARCUS PARKS

He loves talking about motorbikes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It was a really long story about motorbike acquiring.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Is it possible that he was drugged at the said clubby and horrible things went on?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well the thing is the pushback from, I forget the guest host's name on Coast to Coast but he was like could you possibly have borderline personality disorder?

BEN KISSEL

Whoa! Don't bring that up!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It was a big jump.

MARCUS PARKS

Wow. That's a big one, yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Oh my god. Yeah, they all do! It's Coast to Coast.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He was like (British accent) oh yeah, me and my mates, we love that Madonna song. We've been obsessed with it, mate.

BEN KISSEL

Borderline.

MARCUS PARKS

Well these missing time episodes coincided with Russ' visits to a place called Druid's Altar in the town of Bingley.

BEN KISSEL

Everyone wears little bells.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's cute.

MARCUS PARKS

Druid's Altar is a rocky outcrop in West Yorkshire that's said to have a connection to druid worshiping tradition. According to legend, this had once been the site where a Roman legion had mysteriously disappeared after having a run in with some druids.

BEN KISSEL

Cool. That's a fight I want to see to be honest.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yes.

MARCUS PARKS

That's the thing.

BEN KISSEL

What the fuck is a druid?

MARCUS PARKS

Well all we know, druids, it's actually somewhat unclear because all we know about druids come from Roman legions.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because they did not keep written records of themselves.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They were an oral tradition. But I don't know if they believe that they, I think the concept was that they didn't want to leave evidence behind. I'm not exactly sure. But the druids are very mysterious.

MARCUS PARKS

Very mysterious.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, druids are kinda cool.

MARCUS PARKS

We know they existed but we only have one perspective, we have the perspective of the enemy. But while we don't have a lot of information about Bingley's Druid Altar specifically, the rock still has a mystical presence. It's like Stonehenge. And Kellett often use the site to meditate.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Also by the way, Stonehenge is less exciting when you just see how they did it and they just weeble wobble the Stonehenges. Have you seen that?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Understanding that human beings are very capable.

BEN KISSEL

We are capable.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Now strange lights-

BEN KISSEL

I mean not us.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, no, no.

BEN KISSEL

As a species.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I get tired from talking.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I'm gonna go take a nap after this.

BEN KISSEL

You have to.

MARCUS PARKS

Now strange lights have been seen at Druid's Altar as well as UFOs and allegedly alien frogmen. There has also been reports of cats that are far too large-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That cat's too fucking big, man.

BEN KISSEL

That's a lion. A lion or a panther.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That fucking cat's too fucking big! Oh my god, that cat's the size of a cow, what is it doing there?

BEN KISSEL

Wow. So big fucking cats, huh?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Big cat! You're gonna wanna go over there, there's a cat over there, it's almost the size of a dog.

BEN KISSEL

Wow. It could just be a larger cat.

MARCUS PARKS

No, it's a cat that's too big.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's too fucking big, man.

BEN KISSEL

Cats can get kinda large. The big ones.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Big cats.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I actually am fascinated by stories of animals that are just too big.

BEN KISSEL

Just too big.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love it.

BEN KISSEL

I know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We covered this this week, the idea of a 4 foot tall rabbit.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love that type of shit. I love the idea of thunderbirds.

MARCUS PARKS

Too big, man.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's too fucking big.

BEN KISSEL

I agree.

MARCUS PARKS

And of course that also plays into the goblin universe theory. Maybe Druid's Altar is a doorway into the so-called goblin universe. You remember the goblin universe, don't you, Ben?

BEN KISSEL

Of course.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Cat Daddy University. It's in the other universe.

BEN KISSEL

I know all about the goblin universe.

MARCUS PARKS

Now as Russ' experiences with missing time and his meditation sessions at Druid's Altar began to converge, he found himself in another abduction scenario, sitting in the same dentist's chair that he'd found himself in the first time. This time though, he was able to see the figures far clearer.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(British accent) At first I couldn't really see the shapes of the heads and then I knew I was like oh he's hairless, there's something going on there. I can't see his bibbity bop face.

BEN KISSEL

Whoa, so blurry face.

MARCUS PARKS

Tall men with no hair wearing white aprons over a blue onesies.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

A lot of aprons in alien wear.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Well I would believe that especially if they're doing the procedures. And their faces are blurry, right? So you can't make them out or...?

MARCUS PARKS

No, he can see them.

BEN KISSEL

He can see them?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He can't see features.

MARCUS PARKS

He can't see features.

BEN KISSEL

He can't see the features, like a dream.

MARCUS PARKS

But let me ask you this. I did see this once but maybe he confirmed it on Coast to Coast. Were they about 10 ft tall?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. He met several of these. Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Okay. All right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He said there was an array of sizes.

MARCUS PARKS

Gotcha. 10 ft at most.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He was like (British accent) one was 8 ft there, another one was a bit of a 10 footer. He's like I even saw as close to 15 ft of an alien.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh they'd go up to 15.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And then that author keeps coming in being like hey, listen, hey, just so you know, but the Berwyn Mountain incident was corroborated by several different sources. And then he'd be like (British accent) but then you know he took me on my motorbike and I don't remember anything else, there was a bright light behind me.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And he's just like hey. It was cool watching everybody fight over a narrative was kinda fun.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

If they did live here they would probably take just a generation or two to shrink down about a foot and a half, 2 ft. Gravity.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah, they can do it themselves just by stooping.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Russ said he felt a prick which caused him to black out and when he awoke there was a pipe in his throat coming out of his mouth attached to a helmet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Russ said he felt as if he was naked and floating, then he felt himself being sprayed by something that had a strange smell.

BEN KISSEL

Sounds like he's in the sack from The Matrix.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But I find that one of the more compelling things about the abductions is people talking about smells.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Smells and sounds are really interesting because that's how our brain kind of works with memory really, but especially smells. And people always say that because they say grays smell like rancid cinnamon.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. It's so specific.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's very specific and it comes up again and again and again.

BEN KISSEL

Yes. Well Mrs. Zebrowski, so we've decided that maybe the special classes are for Henry and we think it's gonna be great.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hey!

BEN KISSEL

And he's gonna fit right in.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

The thing is they thought I was mentally handicapped because I had a hard time tying my shoes but then they actually said I was so smart I was getting distracted.

BEN KISSEL

I could see it. It's a fine line.

MARCUS PARKS

Sure.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is.

BEN KISSEL

All of us are toeing a fine line.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's just weird because I could have been in remedial classes but then all of a sudden I was in gifted classes.

MARCUS PARKS

Wow.

BEN KISSEL

Awesome.

MARCUS PARKS

You flipped real fast.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Look at me.

BEN KISSEL

There you go.

MARCUS PARKS

Well as Russ levitated higher, he found that he was in an arena filled with about 100 other people. Telepathically, he and the others were given instructions for weapons training-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Battle formations, and other techniques used to fight and kill other humanoids.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is like Coneheads.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

That's fun.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh yeah. It's a Neo-like experience. You're right, Ben. After that, Russ floated back down to the ground and after the throat helmet was removed-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(gagging)

BEN KISSEL

God that sounds horrible.

MARCUS PARKS

He found he was in a giant room with hundreds of other people, listening to orders being barked from a nearby speaker.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's so funny because it's just the diametric opposite of a lot of other alien abduction stories because most of them you'd always get like a screen that shows them the future of the planet and being like you need to stop nuclear war and like that type of shit. And this is just being like no, we're fucking killing them.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is fucking Doom.

BEN KISSEL

It's very militarized.

MARCUS PARKS

It is. No, I just imagine like out of the loudspeaker just ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack!

MARCUS PARKS

Gonna be fucking great. The same type of tall figures from the dentist's chair were also present and they ordered Russ and the others to drink from a pipe which produced a pleasant liquid with a citrus-like flavor. However it caused Russ to vomit but he was ordered to keep drinking nonetheless. It was drink, blah, drink, blah, drink, blah.

BEN KISSEL

Ayahuasca perhaps.

MARCUS PARKS

Perhaps. Until finally a mist surrounded everyone in the room.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whoa.

MARCUS PARKS

Russ became, as he said, very wet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He was wet.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Always be scared of the tall white man.

MARCUS PARKS

Very, very wet.

BEN KISSEL

Very wet.

MARCUS PARKS

Which the tall figure said was necessary to prevent quote unquote "infection".

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Whatever you say, y'all.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Russ then felt very dry.

BEN KISSEL

Oh very dry.

MARCUS PARKS

Very dry.

BEN KISSEL

Why was that necessary?

MARCUS PARKS

But he also felt pleasant.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

See, it's about trust.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

And after drying off, Russ was given a one piece suit with no zippers or buttons, it simply fastened together around his body as it was put on, like a suit made of unstable molecules. It's like Fantastic Four type shit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah, it's how Marvel CGIs all explanation of why we have to see everybody's superstar face in all the movies now because all the suits are made out of nano machines.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Oh interesting take.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's all it is now. All the suits have to be made out of nano machines so you can see Chris Evans' fucking face.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah but don't you want to see Chris Evans' face?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

BEN KISSEL

Would you prefer not to?

MARCUS PARKS

Chris Evans, no, Captain America-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I wanna see a fucking mask!

MARCUS PARKS

Captain America wears the helmet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he's stupid.

MARCUS PARKS

You picked the one superhero out of all of them-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I couldn't care less.

BEN KISSEL

There's a lot of actually superheroes that you can see their faces.

MARCUS PARKS

He's the only one who wears the helmet.

BEN KISSEL

You can see Superman's face, you can see half of Batman's face.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I shouldn't have even brought it up.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ant-Man's dumb, he's small. Ant-Man's a stupid character, it's dumb shit.

BEN KISSEL

You can't see Ant-Man's face.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

No, Ant-Man's fun.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. The first movie was really good.

BEN KISSEL

But you can see most superheroes faces actually.

MARCUS PARKS

A lot of them.

BEN KISSEL

And the Incredible Hulk, it's still his face.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, technically. It's like just a bigger face. Incredible Hulk, my favorite.

BEN KISSEL

I do like him. I'm always angry.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just inner peace. I just imagine myself. Honestly it's been really helping with me and my blood pressure just hearing this whole story, imaging that I'm in a tube filled with other warriors, I got my throat helmet in. I'm ready to kill. I don't know what humanoids we're killing.

MARCUS PARKS

I don't know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because they really haven't specified who we're fighting.

BEN KISSEL

All right.

MARCUS PARKS

Not yet. You don't know who you're fighting until you show up.

BEN KISSEL

Not yet, okay.

MARCUS PARKS

But Russ said he felt invincible as the suit cycled through colors, from white to yellow to green to blue to black. The suit was, as he put it, unbreakable.

BEN KISSEL

Cool.

MARCUS PARKS

I think. Every human suit was unbreakable, right? His narrative can be quite unclear.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is deeply, utterly unclear. Because this is again, he's ramping up. This point in the story, he's about an hour into the Coast to Coast series that I saw.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And it had not yet gotten to the Berwyn Mountain incident and how all of this was attached to it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Which I can feel the audience listening to us being like why are we here?

MARCUS PARKS

Why are we here? Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And it's because Russ Kellett decided to tell the story this way. Because he decided that all of this connects back to the Berwyn Mountain incident. And we're gonna see, does it?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Does it connect back?

MARCUS PARKS

We'll see.

BEN KISSEL

Let's see. Let's see.

MARCUS PARKS

Now with his uniform fitted, Russ was ordered to pick up a rifle and a helmet.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's cool.

MARCUS PARKS

Now at this point it became clear that Russ was on his way to battle, to fight some sort of unknown enemy. Now this helmet served two purposes. First commanders could speak through an intercom to the soldiers to issue orders, like a coach to a quarterback. But the helmet also protected human ears from the incredibly loud noises caused by their rifles, which without the helmet would have caused their ears to bleed.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's very specific.

MARCUS PARKS

Fully kitted out, the human soldiers were then ordered to walk through portals marked by crystal balls, obvious teleportation machines.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

And when they arrived at their destination, they were finally faced with their enemy.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah?

MARCUS PARKS

It was who else-

BEN KISSEL

Who?

MARCUS PARKS

10 ft tall, gray-green...

BEN KISSEL

Yes?

MARCUS PARKS

Reptilians!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(metal guitar riff)

BEN KISSEL

Whoa!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(singing) War! What is it good for? Killing reptilians.

MARCUS PARKS

Say it again!

BEN KISSEL

Reptilians vs Terminator would be one of the greatest movies of all time.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

There's so many ways to expand these franchises but they're just not doing it and I wish that they would.

BEN KISSEL

Oh they're not doing it. I know.

MARCUS PARKS

But by following orders, staying calm, and relying on their gear, the human were able to best the reptilians in battle.

BEN KISSEL

Is that even possible?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Now I'll be the struggling host of Coast to Coast AM who's just like okay Russ, that's great, that's great. Now can you just please tell me, so when did this take place? How long was it? And he was just like (British accent) it's all in my dreams. It's all in my dreams.

BEN KISSEL

It's all in your dream. Time lapse.

MARCUS PARKS

It still happened. It's all in his dreams but it still happened.

BEN KISSEL

To be honest with you, I don't think the reptilians would lose.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well reptilians again, it depends on-

BEN KISSEL

Aren't they like the most intergalactical war machine type creatures?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm telling you guys right now, we're gonna be doing a big David Icke series this summer. When we do that, you will see that in order to beat the reptilians, you have to fight them in an almost Care Bear like way where you're not really-

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

To be honest, this is not how you fight reptilians. You don't fight them with guns, you fight them with-

BEN KISSEL

According to David Icke.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You're supposed to put flowers in their weapons.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You're supposed to be like no man, peace.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You're supposed to fight them with good vibes.

BEN KISSEL

Like Kylie Jenner in a Pepsi commercial?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yes. Because the aliens feed off of our bad vibes. That's why they're here.

BEN KISSEL

Well they're gonna have a field day.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. Oh they love it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Everything bad that's ever happened is caused by reptilians because reptilians want our bad emotions and also our gold?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well yes, the gold is the physical part.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, they can have the gold at this point.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well that's why they made humans to begin with because that we were the burrowing race of species that they created in order to dig for gold so they can use it.

BEN KISSEL

We don't have burrowing hands.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We got... Fuck you! How fucking dare you?

BEN KISSEL

I don't know.

MARCUS PARKS

Nah man, we got hands to operate the equipment.

BEN KISSEL

I see, right.

MARCUS PARKS

This is the thing that we have, this is the argument we had the other day about being at the top of the food chain. We got hands to operate the equipment.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why were are made with the hands.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Got it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yes. They could have also again, Monsters Inc.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Anything.

BEN KISSEL

Flip it, turn it to light. What if the reptilians wanted our laughter?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They didn't.

BEN KISSEL

No they don't.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

The pleiadians wanted our laughter.

BEN KISSEL

Oh is that right?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

The pleiadians also believe that not fucking with us as a species... Technically we were supposed to not be messed with. Technically the earth was supposed to be used as sort of a natural sanctuary within our specific part of the galactic empire. But the reptilians broke that treaty by messing with the species that were on this rock.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

I didn't see that on Google Earth.

MARCUS PARKS

And imagine what kind of life it would be if we laughed constantly.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(forced laughter) Technically that's how we live.

BEN KISSEL

Well no, if you did get the dopamine hit with it and it wasn't horrible.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

If you weren't laughing at like human genocide, if you were laughing truly at things that are funny. Yes. But I do see it could be very imbecilic.

MARCUS PARKS

But if everything is funny, is nothing funny?

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We're back here. The Berwyn Mountain incident actually is one of my more credible, exciting experiences and I really feel that if we look at some of the information and I pulled out-

BEN KISSEL

I agree.

MARCUS PARKS

Now it's fairly clear that the people giving orders to Russ Kellett were the tall whites.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

But Russ doesn't use that term.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

MARCUS PARKS

Instead of using something that's accepted and easy to remember, he calls them-

BEN KISSEL

A venti.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I hate it. It's a large coffee.

BEN KISSEL

It's a Starbucks show.

MARCUS PARKS

He calls them the tall white bald aliens or the TWBA.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He's allowed to. This is ufology.

BEN KISSEL

Okay but they're still tall whites.

MARCUS PARKS

No, the TWBA.

BEN KISSEL

TWBA, I like it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It sounds like a wrestling coalition.

BEN KISSEL

It does, it does. I'm fine with it.

MARCUS PARKS

Well Russ nicknamed his TWBA commander Judas and claimed that they were both a part of a platoon called the Omega Regiment whom Russ would fight with throughout his cosmic campaign.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

And once the battle with the reptilians was over, because the reptilians aren't the only enemy here-

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Russ returned to his barracks where he was transported back to earth. From what I can tell though because it's again unclear, I don't think Russ remembered what happened upon his return.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well yes because-

MARCUS PARKS

Later on in the book he says that he only remembered that all this happened years after it happened during memory regression.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

And up until that point, he thought I think that he was just having blackouts and weird health problems.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he really just didn't stack this story in a way that made a lot of sense. He jumped right into his war dreams and not into the fact that he was suffering from missing time, he was seeing objects in the sky. And he said there was hard evidence or quote unquote "hard evidence" of him experiencing an episode of going away where he said his buddy saw him stopped at a stoplight in his scooter for five minutes and people were like honking their horn at him and he was just like staring off into space. And then he'd come back and be like (British accent) sorry there, was in a bit of an intergalactic war there.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And they're like great, cool, but you're at work.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

If he would have set all this alien stuff up with that-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

Then quite possibly it could be a little more of an interesting story as far as the paranormal goes. It's interesting. It's a very interesting narrative, yes.

BEN KISSEL

You just disagree with his outline. You would have rearranged the outline a little bit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah. You would rearrange the outline.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

We're talking from an editor's perspective here.

BEN KISSEL

Sure. Maybe he needed one of those.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, I think he did.

BEN KISSEL

Yes indeed.

MARCUS PARKS

Now once Russ returned to earth, he also returned to normal life. He returned to visiting his nana for tea, he returned to his job cleaning and repairing overalls for coal miners and other British industrial workers.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's a great job.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, it's good work.

BEN KISSEL

Hell of a good gig.

MARCUS PARKS

Steady work. Some time later though the TWBA returned while Russ was climbing rocks in an area called Baildon Moor. This time though-

BEN KISSEL

Not a mountain, just climbing on little rocks?

MARCUS PARKS

No, England's full of rocks, dude.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

Especially on the moors.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They love rocks.

MARCUS PARKS

There's a big rock, I'm gonna go climb that big rock. I would love that. If I lived in England-

BEN KISSEL

You're a climber.

MARCUS PARKS

I'd climb those big rocks all the time.

BEN KISSEL

I know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah. It's like Aleister Crowley, that's all he did.

MARCUS PARKS

Especially if I could go to a place called Baildon Moor.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Baildon Moor.

MARCUS PARKS

This time though, during this battle, it was with the alien grays. And once again Russ won the battle before being returned to earth. You're gonna hear that a lot.

BEN KISSEL

Nice. Are we back to Gilles de Rais?

MARCUS PARKS

Next, Russ was abducted and sicced on the green dragon race who sort of became the main villains in Russ' story. Interestingly the dragons had their own human soldiers like Russ. Because that's the thing, Russ isn't the only human soldier.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

It's Russ and a bunch of other dudes that are all fighting other alien races who also have their army of dudes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He brings up the Chinese people quite a bit as well. He does talk a lot about...

MARCUS PARKS

He fights many Chinese and what he calls Slavic people.

BEN KISSEL

Is it an allegory for Vietnam?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, it's just his brain.

BEN KISSEL

No?

MARCUS PARKS

He's just choosing. He's just choosing.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's in his brain.

MARCUS PARKS

yeah. Now this I suppose implies that each alien race had a treaty of sorts with certain countries. And it was obvious that the TWBA had a treaty with the British. This was seemingly confirmed with Russ when during one of his abduction battles, he allegedly fought with who else but British pop star Robbie Williams.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And Robbie Williams loves this shit.

BEN KISSEL

Take that indeed.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Speaking with the Daily Star in 2020, Russ Kellett claimed that during a 1999 abduction, he saw British singer and well-known UFO believer Robbie Williams during one of his military missions.

BEN KISSEL

Lucky guy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I bet you this delighted Robbie Williams.

MARCUS PARKS

I absolutely guarantee it did.

BEN KISSEL

I would think so.

MARCUS PARKS

While waiting in line to go through the crystal ball teleportation device, Kellett said he looked behind him and recognize the young man on line, as the British say, they don't say in line, they say on line.

BEN KISSEL

They're neutral.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well in New York also they say on line as well.

BEN KISSEL

In line, on line.

MARCUS PARKS

Do they?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

I never heard that during the 16 years-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, it's on line.

MARCUS PARKS

Really?

BEN KISSEL

He says it on line, that's a Queens thing. I say in line.

MARCUS PARKS

I think it's a Queens thing. And I don't fuck with Queens that much.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's New York, all of you can go fuck yourselves.

BEN KISSEL

You're in it, you're not on the line.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's on line for me.

BEN KISSEL

It's in line. It doesn't matter, I'm neutral. I'm neutral on most shit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Well he recognized the young man behind him as who else but former Take That singer Robbie Williams.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

And this is just after Millennium, this is just after the first solo hit.

BEN KISSEL

I love me some Robbie!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's hard to book him after that.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, he's huge.

MARCUS PARKS

Kellett said that he asked the guy hey, are you Robbie Williams? And the guy who was allegedly Robbie Williams said I don't know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, man. He's in a spectral world about to fight a war against fucking reptilians. He doesn't know who he used to be.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, yeah. And at that point, an alien shouted at Kellett to get back in line.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh okay.

MARCUS PARKS

He said in line specifically.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So it's different.

BEN KISSEL

Yes, different.

MARCUS PARKS

Kellett never saw Robbie again but he was sure that he'd seen Robbie Williams.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This was also when he finally released some of his footage, Russ Kellett has had his footage hidden for a long time. And he had a footage of what was called quote unquote "a flying man" that he put up. And it is just kind of like a blob, some people call it a flying dolphin.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

When asked about Kellett's claims, Robbie Williams surprisingly responded. He had a cheeky but noncommittal answer. He said no comment.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he loves it.

BEN KISSEL

Whoa! No comment is a comment.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He loves it.

MARCUS PARKS

Now Russ was apparently pretty good at what he did. So he was promoted within the Omega Regiment again and again.

BEN KISSEL

Great.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

This is all inside of his world, man.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

At one point, it was discovered that Russ had a telepathic ability which allowed him to feel when the dragon race was teleporting to the different areas of the battle before they materialized there.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And I really can't stress this enough, when we talk about in the book because there's a lot of witness cooperation to the Berwyn Mountain incident-

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You would be surprised just how much real evidence there is attached to it.

BEN KISSEL

Cause it does seem like he's just kind of plucking at any ideas that he has. So he knows Robbie Williams and then he's like ooh Asian people, dragons. And so I don't know, it seems human in a sense.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, it does. Yeah. But as Russ ping-ponged between earth and wherever the crystal ball teleporters were taking him for these battles, he began to experience some adverse effects. He started vomiting blood.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

See this is interesting.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because he did started getting physically sick.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And for some reason traffic lights were giving him panic attacks. Couldn't figure out why.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's why I always blow through them.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But no matter the damage to his body, the TWBA kept abducting Russ, telling him that he was special, that he was one of them. And pretty soon Russ began seeing a TWBA looking back at him when he looked in the mirror.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Cool.

BEN KISSEL

Scary.

MARCUS PARKS

So Russ, he shaved off his head and his eyebrows.

BEN KISSEL

Oh that's not good.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Man, then you turn into sort of like Bjork's stalker at that point.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Kind of a little tear up the picture of the Pope there. What was her name? I love that woman.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Sinéad O'Connor.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Sinéad O'Connor.

BEN KISSEL

Sinéad O'Connor. I hope she's doing okay out there.

MARCUS PARKS

I hope she's doing okay too. Well this apparently ingratiated Russ to the TWBA who promoted him to team leader.

BEN KISSEL

Does he get a plaque?

MARCUS PARKS

Well this of course gave Russ even more confidence when he battled and defeated a smaller blue-colored dragon race who used Eastern Europeans as their human support soldiers.

BEN KISSEL

The Polish? The Polish are little blue people.

MARCUS PARKS

Fighting with the little blue men

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's us. We are a sturdy people. We're sturdy, we're good for an alien war, I wish more people would use us.

BEN KISSEL

I wanna be with the dragons to be honest with you. I think that they're probably gonna win.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

There's a new Top Chef, there's a Polish woman who won Top Chef Poland. Man, she's fucking trucking, dude. She's like I'm a potato lady! I keep saying I'm a potato lady. And I was like you are, I love you, potato lady.

BEN KISSEL

She is a potato lady.

MARCUS PARKS

But seemingly because Russ was so fucking good at what he did, he found that the alien attacks began to spill out into his hours on the earthly realm.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

One night he said he was chased by a silver ball while he was riding his motorcycle. But thanks to Russ' awesome motorcycle skills, the ball gave up and flew away off into the sky.

BEN KISSEL

Very Phantasm.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's a huge book.

BEN KISSEL

It sounds like it.

MARCUS PARKS

The next day however, it was found that Russ' face was red and splotchy.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I see this.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And when he went to the doctor, he was asked if he'd been near anything giving off heavy radiation. He kept his mouth shut however and his face healed in two weeks, despite the continuation of blood vomit, stomach pain, and fatigue.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he was mad because he went to the doctor and all the guy gave him was a bunch of cream.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Well doctors always don't have the answers.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, no, they don't want to hear the whole story.

BEN KISSEL

I think doctors are actually very bitter these days because they don't make as much money as YouTubers. I actually have been thinking about that. I think they're angry.

MARCUS PARKS

They're very angry. I've been trying to figure out my problems, I've had to go through a lot of really angry, bitter doctors who have given up completely.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. Because they still have student loan debt.

MARCUS PARKS

I got a couple of fantastic doctors now.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But a lot of them have given up.

BEN KISSEL

I think they just get really upset with the modern economics state.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah. Especially when you come in and you have a sunburn and you're like (British accent) I'm a part of the hidden astro-alien army.

BEN KISSEL

Right, right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You're like listen dude, you know how many assholes I have to look at today? Do you have any idea?

BEN KISSEL

But this is the 70s. Oh no, this is the 90s?

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, this is the 90s. Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Maybe they were a little happier then.

MARCUS PARKS

Maybe. Well we were all a little happier.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, Bill Clinton was rocking it, fucking blowing that saxophone.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We were talking before we were recording, innocent scandals when it was just about sticking a cigar in a woman and then going to the McDonald's all the time.

BEN KISSEL

They ruined it. Kosovo.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yeah. Kosovo. I'm always thinking of Kosovo.

MARCUS PARKS

That lipstick factory that we blew up.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, yeah. There's some scandals there.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

(singing) Off the Florida Keys, there's a place called Kosovo. That's where we wanna go to get away from it all.

BEN KISSEL

I can't wait until I'm fucking 50, bro. When I'm fucking 50, dude, it's nonstop Margaritaville music, nonstop good time tunes, dude.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Then you're just spilling coffee all over yourself.

BEN KISSEL

That's part of Margaritaville.

MARCUS PARKS

That is. Spilling coffee, spilling iced coffee all over yourself right after you sing Kokomo.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, who cares?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's the goal.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well as his sickness got worse, Russ said he was visited by a 15 ft tall shadow man who appeared in his bedroom at night.

BEN KISSEL

So we got dragons, we got shadow people, we got tall whites, we got little-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, he's got the whole fucking cast of aliens.

BEN KISSEL

Okay. All right, cool.

MARCUS PARKS

It's the menagerie, man. Well this shadow man placed images of war into Russ' head, horrific scenes of people dead in the streets. Perhaps some sort of psychological warfare.

BEN KISSEL

Perhaps.

MARCUS PARKS

After more blood vomit though, Russ was taken to hospital where he recovered. But once he was better, that's when the TWBA came back, said you gotta go back to the front lines.

BEN KISSEL

You can't throw up that much blood.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, honest.

BEN KISSEL

Let him out. Is there a way to get out? Do you get your pension?

MARCUS PARKS

I don't know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I don't think there's reserves.

BEN KISSEL

No?

MARCUS PARKS

This whole thing is involuntary and it's about this time that he's realizing that he's being used, the TWBA are using him, they're using everybody else.

BEN KISSEL

Wow. Every soldier does have that moment.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Oh yes.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But once in their custody, the TWBA introduced Russ to a fellow telepath named Mandy who said that the dragon race had put out a bounty on all telepaths.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

In case you didn't know, they've been coming for all telepaths. But I knew it. You know why?

BEN KISSEL

Yeah. How?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm a telepath. I'm just one of those, I'm extra sensitive and it's the reason why I can't work.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, I totally understand. It's emotionally difficult to do anything.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I hear your thoughts and I know you just want to fuck me.

BEN KISSEL

No, I actually was just thinking about math. I literally was thinking about math.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I know what you're thinking about, how all you want to do is push my little piggy body out. And I know you just want to come on the back of my head, you filthy pervert. And guess what? You're allowed.

BEN KISSEL

Well thank you, man. I just lost a fucking real close to the Raiders yesterday.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Another wish granted by Mandy the telepath.

BEN KISSEL

Thanks Mandy. I really wish that people understood the simplicity of my brain just slightly better.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

It's complex but difficult.

MARCUS PARKS

Well the telepath... Complex but quite difficult.

BEN KISSEL

Yes, it's both of those things.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes. Like a truly good breakfast sandwich.

MARCUS PARKS

Oh interesting. God I miss that. Actually that's the only thing I miss from New York.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hank's Bagels.

BEN KISSEL

Oh yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Breakfast sandwiches. You're all lying to yourselves with Hank's Bagels, I'm sorry.

BEN KISSEL

But I do understand it.

MARCUS PARKS

No, no, just breakfast sandwiches.

BEN KISSEL

Breakfast sandwich. No, I'm with you.

MARCUS PARKS

Just breakfast sandwiches.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You gotta make your own.

BEN KISSEL

There's a place that I found that I'll let you know about it.

MARCUS PARKS

Thank you.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah don't blow them up, cause I want to find it.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

I appreciate it. Yeah, that's why you let me know off air, right. Thanks, I appreciate that. God, I lost my place thinking about breakfast sandwiches.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I know, I'm starving.

BEN KISSEL

I love breakfast sandwiches.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well perhaps this hunting of telepaths, could that have been the mission of the Silver Bowl?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

All right, now we're finally back. We're finally back to the Berwyn Mountain incident.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And I remember too in the episode being like Jesus fucking Christ. I was like all right, what am I even listening to?

MARCUS PARKS

Well after returning to earth, Russ was teleported to Mars to battle a much larger orange dragon race.

BEN KISSEL

Wait.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's just a whole...

BEN KISSEL

Oh it's a larger orange dragon race.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, much larger orange dragon race.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

MARCUS PARKS

And this is after he got the special implants installed in his eyes that showed the map of the battlegrounds.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's a whole thing.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Dude. Okay great.

MARCUS PARKS

But he won again.

BEN KISSEL

Good.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Got to.

BEN KISSEL

It seems like he's undefeated.

MARCUS PARKS

He's like 6:0 at this point.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

But in his next battle, Russ and the rest of Omega Regiment were pitted against the white dragon race. The white dragons according to Russ are the most dangerous of all the enemies.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, is it their cross burnings and fucking white robes?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I don't know.

BEN KISSEL

That's what they call the grand wizards.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, I know.

MARCUS PARKS

I thought they were called the cyclops.

BEN KISSEL

I don't fucking know what those nerds call themselves.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's all garbage.

MARCUS PARKS

Well from how the TWBA put it to Russ, the white dragons used humans for slave labor and sex slavery.

BEN KISSEL

We're horrible at work.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But we're good at sucking and fucking.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

yeah, we can do the sucking and fucking but honestly these aliens need to automate.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. I mean I suppose, I mean really the big reason is that we're apparently very much disliked by the rest of the galaxy. Everyone really, they just really don't like us.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's all the galactic empire stuff. They always say that we're a backwoods area.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That we're far away from everybody.

MARCUS PARKS

Sure.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We're only good for working and fucking, which is honestly, thank you, yes please.

BEN KISSEL

Come get us. Let's go.

MARCUS PARKS

Is it perhaps statements like that the reason why they hate us?

BEN KISSEL

Who cares what they think?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm me. And if they can't handle me at my worst then they don't deserve me at my sex slavery.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, absolutely not.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because I will fuck and suck.

BEN KISSEL

I know you will.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's the one thing that'll fucking get me in there.

MARCUS PARKS

I mean we may not be good workers but we got fun holes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yep.

BEN KISSEL

Absolutely we do.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Stretch them out.

MARCUS PARKS

Now the white dragons were flanked by Chinese soldiers.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Always.

MARCUS PARKS

But Russ once again prevailed and prevailed again and again throughout several more battles.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

Including one against the TBBA, the tall blue bald aliens.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He comes up with a lot of different ideas.

BEN KISSEL

He does.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Before that battle however, Russ said he participated in a ceremony, kind of a pump up pep rally where he heard this rousing speech given by an alien, I think a TWBA, that he paraphrased in his book. Henry, if you will please.

BEN KISSEL

And it starts with man, I feel like a woman!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

"Today we stand together as one to fight our enemies. Some time ago it was found of a plan to destroy my home planet along with my race and to move on to all the other planets in the goddamn universe."

MARCUS PARKS

We can get some Patton music going on here. (trumpets play)

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

"Our scientists and technical departments have been working nonstop to prevent the catastrophe which would amount to what you have seen so many times before in your history as genocide. We are not a warring race-" even though that's all we seem to be doing.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, it does seem to be pretty common and popular.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

"But some of our race chose to stand and fight and fight alongside you and hope to end this war once and for all. Go now to end this war." This is our independence day!

BEN KISSEL

There it is, Bill Pullman coming through. Okay, not the most uproarious speech.

MARCUS PARKS

No. Go now to end this war, it's certainly not General Patton. No, it is not. No.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And if I could just get you to just read through the 'Berwyn Mountain Incident' book, if you could just look at it and understand there's a lot of other details. We love Russ, we love Russ' energy, we love what Russ brings to the table.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

Blood vomit. Blood vomit.

BEN KISSEL

I like that.

MARCUS PARKS

He came back and started vomiting up blood. You like that? Now I got your attention again.

BEN KISSEL

I mean I like people with tangible evidence.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But then when it came down to it, he's like (British accent) well I finally got a doctor to diagnose me with something and he said it was straight up fibromyalgia.

MARCUS PARKS

Fibromyalgia. It's chronic-

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, it's fibro-fucking-myalgia. I don't know.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He said that after all of these intergalactic wars-

BEN KISSEL

It's fibromyalgia. I'm actually just so pissed off.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I actually do feel like for all of your suffering from fibromyalgia, maybe this is the time for you to ask your doctor am I a sniper in a war with the white dragon alien races.

MARCUS PARKS

Ask am I a time traveling telepath?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just think about it for a second and maybe that will fix your problem.

MARCUS PARKS

Do I have teleportation sickness?

BEN KISSEL

Wait until your fucking doctor says yes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

If you just go to Indianapolis.

BEN KISSEL

They're all internet poisoned now.

MARCUS PARKS

Well a couple more battles followed against some 10 ft tall Egyptians with red skin and black hair. Some of them had bullheads, some had horse heads. I think he just said Egyptian because they looked like hieroglyphics.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Those creatures fought alongside the grays. The nordics were there.

BEN KISSEL

Oh great.

MARCUS PARKS

6 ft tall with long blonde hair.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Always, yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

Of course he doesn't call them the nordics. But with that victory, Russ apparently, cosmic campaign over.

BEN KISSEL

He's done.

MARCUS PARKS

Flawless victory.

BEN KISSEL

Mission accomplished.

MARCUS PARKS

No defeats, not a single defeat. Does he address that in the Coast to Coast how he does not lose a single battle?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, no he doesn't.

BEN KISSEL

He's not braggadocious.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

When it comes to the actual... He talks about his kind of his abduction experiences, but when it comes to this full on alien war stuff, every single time he brings it up, the author steps in.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Literally goes like but that's not really what we're really here to discuss today. Because he's like (British accent) you would be surprised, they say there's no atheists in a fox hole but what if everybody's a bit alien? And then we're just like okay, Russ.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. But that's not where his story ended. If we extrapolate from his 1999 experience with Robbie Williams, it seems like Russ founded the Bradford Research Network UFO group in the early 2000s I think.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So this is when, yes, he started really getting into legit UFO research. Because when all of these things were happening, he was growing more and more obsessed with UFOs and he made it his entire life.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Well this is of course long before Russ realized that he was an intergalactic telepathic hero.

BEN KISSEL

Oh.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. So he spent years following up on reports called into this hotline, like the incident in which several children in Pembrokeshire, Pembroke-shy-r, Pembroke-sheer-

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Saw a flying saucer along with a humanoid in a silver suit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Because remember Margaret Fry never actually wrote a full book based on this event. And she was the one that did a lot of the legit hardcore ufological nuts and bolts research that we kind of pull a very grounded story from. It's why they think of this as the Wales version of Roswell. But Russ jumps in to reinvigorate this story with a bunch of new shit.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

So this is after the fact, this is many, many years. Because the book came out I think in 2014 that they're talking about.

BEN KISSEL

Pretty recent.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And he brings it all back around to this other reporter, there was a freelance reporter that wrote the book with him, that basically was like oh this is a huge story we need to talk about. And as he was doing it, Russ Kellett gave him all of this good information on the Berwyn Mountain incident and eventually started to slide in (British accent) you know I'm an alien infantry member. And he's just like okay! Great!

BEN KISSEL

Right.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And then you're fucked because this is your guy now.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yes, yes.

BEN KISSEL

That's your guy. At any point does it turn anti Semitic?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No!

MARCUS PARKS

No!

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

MARCUS PARKS

Thankfully it doesn't.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

He doesn't.

BEN KISSEL

Wow.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just a bit anti Chinese. It's a toe in.

MARCUS PARKS

I wouldn't say it's anti Chinese. He just might use the wrong word to refer to the Chinese every once in a while. But it's not necessarily anti because he mentions many, many races.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, he said they were unwitting humans that were brought into an alien galactic conference.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Boom. Okay great.

MARCUS PARKS

But at least it's not anti Semitic.

BEN KISSEL

Very impressive.

MARCUS PARKS

Well eventually though, Russ began hearing about something strange that had happened decades before on January 23, 1974 around the Berwyn Mountains in Wales. Russ began his own investigation starting with interviews of old timers at the local pub.

BEN KISSEL

Great.

MARCUS PARKS

Not a bad place to start.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No.

BEN KISSEL

Fun.

MARCUS PARKS

There he found one witness who said that 100 soldiers had been in the streets of the village on the night in question.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They're not prone to exaggeration.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. Other witnesses joined in, saying that they'd seen a UFO get hit by a missile that was fired from a jet fighter.

BEN KISSEL

Awesome.

MARCUS PARKS

And supposedly possible physical evidence of a kind from this battle was produced.

BEN KISSEL

I love that idea of just a nice warm pub, everyone drinking their little drinks.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Saying alien stories?

BEN KISSEL

Yeah, saying alien stories. A lot of shit.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Well he got clued into a story of a group of guys saying that they saw a UFO and dudes packing shit up on the side of a road.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

And that's kind of where it all started. And then he got really obsessed with the Berwyn Mountain incident and he traced it from there. The problem is that a lot of guys, they want to get involved in the story.

BEN KISSEL

Sure.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

They want to say something that's fun and interesting. They want one up their mate. So I don't know kind of what came out after the fact.

BEN KISSEL

Right.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But he started piling together other sightings that were happening in the same months.

BEN KISSEL

It's a good pub tale.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is.

MARCUS PARKS

And so Russ began putting together a timeline. Two sets of witnesses said that they saw a jet fighter shoot down a UFO and a group of men, as Henry said, they saw supposedly a landed UFO surrounded by grays carrying weapons and carrying an injured comrade at the same time. Another couple said they encountered a quote unquote "injured frogman", although I'm not sure if they mean a frogman in the sense of the lost OJ Simpson TV pilot the Frogmen or an actual man who is a frog.

BEN KISSEL

I see.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I'm pretty certain it's a man who is a frog.

MARCUS PARKS

And it's not like a Navy SEAL because those are called frogmen.

BEN KISSEL

Frogmen, yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

No, I think it's just a frog-shaped man.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Which again I think is quite prevalent in the UK.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah. And so Russ extrapolated and concluded I think that the cosmic war that he was involved in had spilled over to the earth and Berwyn Mountain was the highly visible results.

BEN KISSEL

Okay.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Again, that's Russ Kellett's world, we're all just living in it.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

BEN KISSEL

We're living in it.

MARCUS PARKS

I can understand it.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love jumping into the side quests inside of the minds of the people that are in our UFO stories. But you know, the core of the story is still very interesting. The Berwyn Mountain incident, there was a lot of corroborating evidence around it. And then you just wonder whether or not... Because abductees, they deal with very intense, large kind of mythos that they're dropped in the middle of.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But I don't know what that is. I don't know whether or not like when we experience something anomalous like that, do we then also connect it deeply into the collective unconscious and then we're experiencing the memories of soldiers? I find that that could be credible.

BEN KISSEL

And it's just as hard to fight in the war, isn't it?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Just as hard.

BEN KISSEL

To experience the memories.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah man.

BEN KISSEL

If I go back to any Vietnam bed, you're homeless, you don't have any money, well I fucking know what you're going through, bro. Because I watched Apocalypse Now.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I saw that film.

BEN KISSEL

I saw that.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

I love this story, it's good.

BEN KISSEL

I love this story.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It's good and deep. But this month we're going to get into a lot of other shit.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, we are. We're gonna get in some weirder stuff.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

We're doing some general weirdness next week, a little bit of shorter topics because we're about to do a big old mama drama history series.

MARCUS PARKS

Big, big, big.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Which I'm very excited for.

MARCUS PARKS

Massive.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

But then we're gonna get into a little blood before that because I know some of you are blood thirsty.

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah, you absolutely are.

BEN KISSEL

Of course. There's never enough blood there for some people. Okay. Also April 16th, I'm gonna be at the Levity Live, so that'll be fun. So check that out. And then we have The Pack theater, that's gonna be for-

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

April 19th, I'm gonna be doing Classy Night Out.

BEN KISSEL

Classy Night Out.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You can check that out at Eventbrite, you can look that up, April 19th. But also we've got Last Comic Book on the Left Volume III.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah!

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

It is available. Is it pre-order deal again? No, I believe we're ready to go.

MARCUS PARKS

I think we're ready to go here.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

You go and you order it, Last Comic Book on the Left over at z2comics.com.

BEN KISSEL

Yes.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Check it out. A lot of good work went into it, we're starting already to build number four.

BEN KISSEL

Very fun.

MARCUS PARKS

And I'd also like to thank our friend Grant Gordon and his lovely wife Ashley.

BEN KISSEL

Ash.

MARCUS PARKS

For teaching me how to say horrible in the wonderful Long Island way.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Ha-ribble. Ha-ribble.

MARCUS PARKS

Give credit where credit is due.

BEN KISSEL

Thank you all so much for listening. Thanks for supporting all the shows here on the Last Podcast Network and thanks for supporting the little Sirius shows that we do as well.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, check them out.

BEN KISSEL

Yes, check out everything. We'll keep you entertained in these crazy interesting unique times. Okay everyone. Anything else, boys?

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

That's it.

BEN KISSEL

Hail yourselves.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hail Satan.

MARCUS PARKS

Hail Gein.

BEN KISSEL

Megustalations!

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Hail me you dirty little piggies.

BEN KISSEL

Go fight that goddamn war.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yeah, you go to sleep and you fight the war in your dreams, all right? You quit fighting war in real life because that's really hurting people. But in your dreams you always win.

BEN KISSEL

Yeah.

MARCUS PARKS

I love that. That's actually pretty nice.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Fight the war of your dreams.

BEN KISSEL

Oh yeah, that's gonna stop all the war.

MARCUS PARKS

Yeah.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Yep. I just fixed it.

BEN KISSEL

You did it!

MARCUS PARKS

Start the thought virus here.

HENRY ZEBROWSKI

Call NATO.

BEN KISSEL

All right.