HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey, Last Podcast on the Left listeners. Fantastic. Today is gonna be great. I'm one of your hosts, Henry Zebrowski. I'm sitting here with Ed Larson.
ED LARSON
Hello!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And we have the privilege to be at Contact in the Desert, hungover at a UFO conference. It feels good. It feels good to be here. We're sitting here with two legends.
ED LARSON
Yes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
People that we are very, very excited to... I'm a little too hungover to be in front of you, Mr. Knapp. But I'm fine with it. This is, this is life. But we're sitting here with investigative journalist George Knapp and documentarian Jeremy Corbell of the WEAPONIZED podcast. It is largely, besides ours, the best on the internet.
ED LARSON
We're good?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Don't. We have to prop ourselves up in front of these men. But it's so good. Thank you so much for talking to us.
GEORGE KNAPP
Had we known what the setting was, we could have been hungover as well.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, buddy!
ED LARSON
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
We should have tried.
GEORGE KNAPP
We didn't do proper preparation for this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because are you a part of your church?
GEORGE KNAPP
I have been down that road over my years.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
I mean I live in Las Vegas.
ED LARSON
Oh okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Man, can I ask like living in Vegas... Because I've been trying to convince my wife to let us move to Vegas and she keeps saying no, we're gonna die there. How do you live-
ED LARSON
Isn't that the point?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I know. But how do you like live in Vegas? Like what's your regular role in Vegas?
GEORGE KNAPP
I'm a homebody.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
These days. But when I first moved there, I tried to embrace all that Las Vegas had to offer. And the fact is you can only run so long, so hard, so fast for an extended period and you gotta stop.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
The town keeps going. Humans, you reach your limit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
God, I can imagine.
GEORGE KNAPP
And I learned that four or five years in.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Damn.
JEREMY CORBELL
He's unkillable. I have tried. I've dragged him around this earth. He is unkillable.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's so good to hear. Honestly, it's very good to hear.
GEORGE KNAPP
It's a great place to live.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Las Vegas is a great place to live.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, I love it.
GEORGE KNAPP
Home prices for example, Southern California, I've seen friends of mine who will spend a million dollars on a 1400 square foot home that's 150 years old.
ED LARSON
It really depresses me. To be honest with you.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
And you can buy a 4000 square foot home for half that price.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're going to Vegas. You hear that? You hear that, Natalie? We're going to Vegas. I wanna go, I can't wait.
GEORGE KNAPP
And it's a real community.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Families, schools, neighborhoods. And it's a great place to live. I mean if you want to run with the town and visit the strip and go crazy, there are plenty of opportunities for that but most people do not. The only time people who are longtime locals go to the strip is when family comes to town and they need to see a show.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And they're forced.
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah.
ED LARSON
Yeah, it's like Times Square.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
My dad lived in Reno, which is kind of like California's Bakersfield I guess.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I love Reno. Reno's got a lot of spirit.
ED LARSON
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mean ghosts.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. It's haunted.
JEREMY CORBELL
Word on the street is that I've always thought there should be a good UFO comedian. And you went up on stage yesterday. Is that correct information? Factual.
ED LARSON
Yeah, Friday, I did a nice 15 minutes before Tim Crawford of UFO TV. And it went really well.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You honestly, you did very, very well.
ED LARSON
I was very happy about it, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
There were several old ladies.
ED LARSON
I could have, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They were ready to cart you out. They wanted to. They were all like he's so silly. They kept saying that he's silly. I can't believe a silly person is here.
JEREMY CORBELL
He crushed it at a UFO convention. That's a good start.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it was good, dude.
ED LARSON
It was good.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And do you feel like when you were in the mix, like when you guys are together... Because now you're becoming sort of like an investigative team, would you call it like that?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yes. Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do you feel like almost your level of recognition, does it make it difficult to kind of get in on stories like more so back in the day? Like do you feel like as an investigative journalist that because your profile is raised, like it's harder to get info or is it easier?
GEORGE KNAPP
It's easier in one sense in that a lot more people will seek us out at other places other than something like this. To get around here, we're being followed by a TV crew right now for Jeremy's show.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
So walking around here, they've been able to document, you can't go 2 ft without getting stopped and swamped in selfies and autographs and things like that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well yeah, you guys are like Elvis here.
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah, somewhat.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You guys rolled in like my guy-
JEREMY CORBELL
It is a UFO convention though.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. Yeah, that's how I feel, yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
People are very nice. It's nice to be able to interact with them and see them in person and they seem to enjoy having a chance to talk to us. But it is hard to get anything done somewhere like here. But in the larger sense, having a higher profile, people who have information that is verifiable and important, they seek us out, they know how to find us. And it's paid off in a big way in the last couple of years.
ED LARSON
Yeah. That was honestly something I really wanted to ask you about is like you guys seem to get everything first before anyone else. And it's like how? Is it because of your reputation or is it just because you have these contacts that we don't know about or what?
GEORGE KNAPP
Combination, contacts. I mean I've been at this a long time. Jeremy and I together have been at it a long time now. But mine dates back 35-36 years and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Lucky to be in Las Vegas. I had no idea when I moved there, there was a Nellis Air Force Base, the Nevada test site, let alone a place called Area 51. And just being in the right place at the right time to meet people like Robert Lazar, Bob Bigelow, John
Alexander, Colm Kelleher. Las Vegas became the unofficial capital of UFO research for 25 straight years. I couldn't tell a lot of that stuff when it was happening but I was allowed into these circles because I kept my word. Because I kept my word and didn't report things that I would learn along the way until it was the right time and I had the okay to go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
That word spread and people would trust me and it's spread now. And the same thing is happening with Jeremy. He's a guy who could be trusted to keep his mouth shut and to live up to agreements and not burn sources is most important.
ED LARSON
What does the government think of you guys?
JEREMY CORBELL
Depends who you ask.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do you feel like you get extra attention? Because I was saying this because I do wonder whether or not like-
ED LARSON
You're just bad at taxes. That's why you got audited.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Oh from government.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah. Both overt and covert. I mean George and I have great sources within every... It's funny, when I was just starting to kind of learn from you, you listed off all these agencies and acronyms and I had no idea who they were, just all these three... But we have such good collective now, independent and collective sources within agencies that we get a heads up sometimes when people are fucking with us from agencies. That has happened.
ED LARSON
Wow.
JEREMY CORBELL
And I've directly to their face called them out. And we're talking long game, someone from NSA will make friends with me, give me a good piece of intel that's not too suspicious. A year and a half later, come to find out that person's real job, that is a real thing. There is a high level of interest in UFOs by the United States government. There is, this is not just fun and games. If it's a fun UFO conference, right. But it's the real deal shit when you're breaking stories like George has been for 35 years on UFOs and I have been for about 10 years with George. Of course there's interest. We've had covert and overt approaches to us from agencies. Which is kind of frightening to me that George and I will be in a skiff, giving a briefing, like a secure location for government, giving a briefing on the current state of UFO stuff that we know. It kind of makes me feel like what the fuck? If we're the best resource for some of that. So the real deal to your question, the real, let's be serious for a second.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah, man. Our government is very aware of the reality of the UFO presence on planet Earth, whatever UFOs are, wherever they're from. That is not sci-fi, that is not a throwaway statement. That shit is real. Now we're not feeling pressured. Like we're journalists, we're never giving up sources. My mom said to me you better fucking go to jail if ever someone asks you something like that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
I mean real deal, we protect sources. But we got great sources both within government and others.
GEORGE KNAPP
Just to add to that, we know for sure, it's been publicly confirmed that at least two Department of Justice investigations have been launched because of images that we made public. We are supposedly not the target but it is hardly reassuring to be told you're not really the target, we're trying to figure out where this leak came from. And it might be more than two but two for sure that the Pentagon has confirmed. Yeah, the Department of Justice is looking into this, what we made public.
JEREMY CORBELL
Which I get. Which I get, though. I get why they do that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do you feel like they have to look from the outside in? Do you feel like it's because the secret keeping mechanisms are so complex that they don't even know who's got what from from the inside? Is that why they go basically look to civilians?
GEORGE KNAPP
Absolutely. It's stovepiping, they've stovepiped. So this program, AAWSAP, that we've reported on a lot, that we made public in 2018, it was within the DIA. And the number of people that knew is less than three hands and fingers, less than 15. The top people at DIA knew, the people who are involved in the program knew. But the guy in the desks next to them on either side, they had no idea. And it wasn't until Senator Harry Reid tried to turn it into a special access program that the rest of the Pentagon and the intelligence community knew what they were up to. And as soon as they found out, it was all hands on deck and they pulled out the knives to kill it. But yeah, there are stovepipes that keep this information restricted. Other intelligence agencies don't know, other people in the same intelligence agency don't know.
JEREMY CORBELL
But the thing about pipes is they leak.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Pipes get leaks. They do, it's true. Well also this stuff's too juicy. Like on some point, like that was one of my main true contentions about the concept of there being an overarching CIA- based conspiracy to kill John F. Kennedy. Where it's like at some point, humans love attention. You mean to really tell me there's not gonna be some guy on his deathbed who's gonna give us the whole kit and caboodle? I feel like it's like-
JEREMY CORBELL
But conversely, just people take their security oaths very seriously. People are patriots. Even people that leak stuff, they're not trying to screw over the US government.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
These are people that work in that position who really have access at that level, they are true patriots. They understand there's a real threat from foreign nations. Like even for us, the idea a foreign nation could hack whatever access we have to stuff we haven't vetted yet, let's say. Let's say we get dumped a bunch of military videos. The big threat our agencies will say, the biggest concern they have... We're journalists, they know we're abiding by the law of journalism. But what if a foreign nation were to access things that we have access to because we're dopes with our computers or something like that?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
And then before we can vet it, then they get a heads up, something we shouldn't put out or something.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
That's a real concern is that other nations are truly fascinated with the current state of technology and how far we've progressed with alleged reverse engineering programs of nonhuman technology. Whoever does that, they fucking win. The second somebody can replicate some of these technologies we see, that is a world dominating power.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
So I'd say that's a real sincere threat is that other nations would try to fuck with journalists more than even the US government.
GEORGE KNAPP
I would add too to your example of JFK, the number of people, if that was a murder approved by CIA, the number of people who knew about it is pretty small.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
And the people who pull it off, if they actually murdered the president, what do they think is going to happen to them if they tell somebody they murdered the president? The fact is a lot of the information about what's hinky about the JFK investigation has come out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
GEORGE KNAPP
Same with UFOs. The broad strokes are out there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
GEORGE KNAPP
Leaks have happened and witnesses have come forward, documents have been produced. The public, if you take the time to research it, the evidence is there. But until there is an official confirmation, the president steps forward, or until they make some demonstration that's unequivocal, undeniable-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
People go about their normal lives and don't pay that much attention to it. There have been leaks, it is out there. If you pay attention, you can connect the dots. But most people don't do that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Especially listening to what David Grusch was saying and a lot of... The new thing now is like I love the new term NHI. Because that's new.
JEREMY CORBELL
Nonhuman intelligence.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I love that term. So they're kind of saying, let me see if this is true or not. They're intimating that there are aliens in the government, right. Which is we've met her, her name's Lauren Bobert. And I'm in love with them.
GEORGE KNAPP
Was that you in the theater?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. She's a spicy lady and honestly she has my vote, she seems like a lot of fun. I know she's got some bad policies but at the same time, I love her attitude.
JEREMY CORBELL
His wife's gonna kick his ass.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes, it's fine, she knows. I've already spoken, I've only openly talked about how I was in the theater. No, I wanted to know if like let's say the NHIs are around, there are aliens, quote unquote "biological aliens" in the government. Like honestly why the living fuck do we trust them? Why are we working with these guys? What could possibly be? Because there's a booth out there. Have you seen the anti-alien booth?
ED LARSON
It's very funny. The guy with the alien with a line through it and it says our turf.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. He basically goes so far into the anti retrofitting or making alien technology for ours, saying that well now we're dependent on alien technology and we need to create an independence from alien technology because we're in bed with the enemy. But so are physical aliens bad? Like why would we want to deal with them? You're like I'm a journalist. I actually still need to save some credibility.
JEREMY CORBELL
I'm a journalist in training. Okay, so check it out. You said a whole bunch of stuff that I was unaware of.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
I didn't know aliens were running our government.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, they're not running the government. I think they're like working the McDonald's at the Pentagon and stuff like that.
JEREMY CORBELL
Okay, that makes more sense.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
Look, what is the specific question you have on that?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Like why would we trust them?
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't trust. Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Like if we know we know things about aliens and we know that they're aliens, why the hell would we trust them?
JEREMY CORBELL
So yeah, I'll answer that real briefly, which is that to the best of my knowledge, the people that have the highest level of understanding, far beyond mine and George, of what's actually going on with UFOs and the craft and the technology is that there has been stories told to them, believe it or not, I don't know, I wasn't there, by NHIs. So they're like there's some form of comms, right. Now they do not trust... The government folks that I would say were in a position where that could be true, no fucking way do they trust what they've been told. You can go into a preserve and or you can go into like a farm and give a cattle some antibiotics and give it water but you're gonna end up eating that motherfucker. So how can we trust the intent? They could just be lying to us. If this is true.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. And the most extreme version of it, there's still a truth to it. So if it is indeed true that there are nonhuman intelligences that actively work for the government, it's like do they get benefits? Like do they get fucking health insurance?
JEREMY CORBELL
I didn't know that was a thing. People say that we have ETs in our government?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. That they hang out-
JEREMY CORBELL
Look at me, I don't know anything about UFOs.
GEORGE KNAPP
I haven't heard that one. I don't find that to be credible that there are ETs in our government.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
I would say this about aliens, and when we say aliens, it's nonhuman intelligence, doesn't mean ET.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Whitley Strieber once said to me they are the true architects of the secrecy. Our government and other governments lie to the public, they've deceived us. But they're the architects of it. They set the template for this. They've been around probably forever, as long as we've been here. They are secretive, they are deceptive. They take on different shapes and forms. They mess with our brains, our perceptive abilities. They hide, they abduct people. I believe those stories to be true, physically abduct people and conduct medical experiments on them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
GEORGE KNAPP
We don't know why, they haven't told us. They have the ability to make themselves patently obvious. They can appear as the Phoenix Lights and sit over major cities and show us that they're there. They don't. Why are they deceptive? Why are they secretive? What is the long term plan? Where are they from? What have they got in mind for us? We get people who say they've communicated, they've received messages from them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
GEORGE KNAPP
And often it's like alien editorials. Look, quit screwing around with nuclear weapons, take care of your planet. You're poisoning yourself. Sometimes it seems like they're a lot more interested in the earth than they are in us.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Take care of yourself. As if they have a long term interest in the planet, not necessarily in us.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It could also literally be like a real estate plan.
GEORGE KNAPP
Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Where you're like once y'all monkeys wipe yourselves out, then we're gonna move in.
GEORGE KNAPP
Once we get these bad tenants out of the apartment, we can rent it for more money.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, yeah. We can flip this.
JEREMY CORBELL
And dude, we're the greatest show in the solar system.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Earth is just wild, man. Look at what we fucking do. I mean I can imagine this is just tourism.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah, I like that concept. That's like one of those things that they talk about. I always like the far flung, like the people talking about agendas. Because like obviously we can't know. Like Richard Dolan just did a whole thing on alien agendas where I was like listening to him and he was kind of saying... But you are guessing, right? A lot of this is the drawings of several of the women that we have seen here at the festival, right, where they are normally drawing and a lot of times they do end up looking like an ex-boyfriend or some ex-husband, like long flowing blonde hair. But it's just interesting to see that we can try to apply some kind of sense to something that literally couldn't make sense to us if we wanted it to.
ED LARSON
Now when you were saying about if they abducted people here, don't you think that if we ever got advanced enough to go to another planet and we saw a nonhuman life form, we would abduct it just to run tests on it?
GEORGE KNAPP
Oh hell yeah. We'd take soil samples, we'd bring home... I mean what did they do when they got to the New World? The Europeans got here and took back all kinds of plants they didn't have in Europe and took slaves. And look at this, look at this goofy species we've got here.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Can you imagine if ET, the little alien from the movie, what if it landed and instead of with Henry Thomas and all these cute ass nice kids, what if it was like Dylan Klebold?
ED LARSON
Yeah, if it was Philly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it was the kids from the Columbine. Like what if it was a bunch of evil little kids that just kicked it to death? Whole movie would be over!
JEREMY CORBELL
Punch the gas, there's earth, go!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Being like wee can't go back there, they killed my son.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah. I don't know, we're pretty cool. Human beings are pretty cool. I don't know the fascination. There seems to be an observation program. I mean look, all jokes aside, this UFO thing isn't new. It's been happening for a long time. We call it by different names. But these reports of craft of unknown origin that can do all this amazing stuff, outpace our greatest warcraft today. It's been around forever, man. So whatever is operating this machinery, whatever intelligence, if they're drones, if it's AI, if it's cybernetic organisms that were made and printed in a 3D printer out of biological flesh. Who fucking knows? Don't know. But I just know this is nothing new. And these reports have been repeated over decades and centuries and it's one of the uncharted territories human beings have ever had to deal with.
GEORGE KNAPP
Terence McKenna, the father of Ayahuasca psychedelics and a really interesting guy, a deep thinker, he thinks that we're interacting with an intelligence that masquerades as aliens over the centuries. It takes a lot of different forms. Are there really 150 different kinds of aliens? I mean big tall ones and Aryans and reptilians and insectoids and little tiny Grays and tall Grays? And are there really that many different species or do they assume a different form or they make it look like it's a different form in our heads?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's fascinating.
GEORGE KNAPP
I like the idea that maybe it's an overarching intelligence that takes different forms and messes with us.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well I also love Terence McKenna's concept of the constant search for novelty; that the universe has a novelty obsession. Like it's constantly making new but that over complication is also sort of like cancer. It's a never ending growth of newness that makes things constantly like fractally more complicated. But it's got something to do with how we think about ourselves. I love Terence McKenna. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
And mushrooms are great too.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey, hey, it does help.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Dennis McKenna, his brother, if you've never had him on the show, he's a really interesting guy. He and his brother, 'The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss' was a book that they wrote together.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
And he's carried on the work.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's awesome.
GEORGE KNAPP
He has an institute that promotes the psychedelics and what you can learn from it and believes that you can interact with alien intelligence through the use of these substances.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Have you ever used Ayahuasca?
GEORGE KNAPP
I have not. No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Would you ever do that? Would you ever do DMT?
GEORGE KNAPP
Oh hell yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Would you ever do that kind of stuff?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah. But it would have to be a special kind of a setting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Because I know about the purging and-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I've seen guys do it from like a guy named Steve or whatever.
ED LARSON
Exactly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I don't want it to be there. I want it to be-
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah. I don't want it to be a group of people where I have to have excrement coming out and barfing at the same time.
ED LARSON
Yeah, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
The camera crew won't be there when you're puking your guts out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Honestly though, that's some good... You haven't seen George that vulnerable. George fetal next to a bonfire might actually be really a lot of fun.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
He's made of like Superman titanium steel. The aliens would be scared of him, man. I don't know what would happen.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Thank you guys so much for sitting and having kind of an informal talk about this. I know one thing I was gonna try to see if you could vaguely explain to Eddie was about the-
ED LARSON
I'm new, by the way.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So Eddie is like, he's learning about this stuff. I'm having a difficult time explaining the concept of what the US government is. There was a bill that was I guess proffered by Chuckie Schumer and then it just didn't, it got gutted and ripped apart and they're trying to redo it, right. Isn't there like a new bill? There's a new UAP bill?
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah. Just introduced in the last couple of days. It's an amendment to the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act. The Schumer amendment that was proposed last year was ambitious. Now Schumer of course was the deputy and longtime friend and assistant to my friend Senator Harry Reid-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
The long time senate majority leader who is responsible for so much of what's happened in the UFO world that we now know. These secret programs that started in Las Vegas many years ago was because of him.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So much fun.
GEORGE KNAPP
So I had a front row seat even though I couldn't report about it. Jeremy and I have done a lot of work on that since but Schumer respected Reid. After Reid dies, he goes whole hog into the UFO field and produces this incredible legislation that basically said give us everything you've got.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
And they gave a grace period to aerospace companies that are suspected, that do have this stuff stashed away-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
They got it from government folks and agencies and give it back to us. We want it. We want you to turn it all over. The eminent domain aspect of that legislation is what killed it because there are a lot of people out there who've got bits and pieces of something interesting. They've been paying for the research themselves. These aerospace companies themselves, they've been funding the research, haven't made much progress from what we've learned but they've had it for decades. They're not willing to just give it up.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
So they use their influence to kill it. I think the new version of legislation has eminent domain again. And you will see the power of the Pentagon come forward. I mean they have bases in every congressional district. They have ways to influence members of congress. All these aerospace companies give a lot of money to key members of certain committees who are chairmen who can kill legislation and I suspect it's gonna happen again.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Well all I can say is we love Boeing. I have nothing against Boeing.
GEORGE KNAPP
You'll be flying home on Boeing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. No, yes. Some of my favorite planes. So I have no problems with them.
ED LARSON
My new AmEx is made out of a piece of a Boeing and I'm like that just terrifies me.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They write it on it, they said it's made out of a piece of the Boeing plane. And you're like this should be on the plane.
JEREMY CORBELL
Oh no.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Is this why they're falling out of the sky? But yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah, I was just saying like to wrap your head around it, this legislation wasn't written in a void. There's direct knowledge of the people that helped craft that to go after the corporations that work with DoD as contractors who have, I'll just say hardware. But people came on our show and admitted in the DIA full craft. So think about it this way. You don't have to know every detail of it but the fact they were motivated at the highest levels of government to write that piece of legislation being like we know you have it, they know where a lot of it's stored, and we're coming after it. That alone should tell you that the UFO topic, crashed flying saucers, although they're not all saucer-shaped-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
That's a real thing. And once that sinks in and you really understand that, then the big questions start coming. Why has this been hidden? What is it? Who's operating them? What is the intent? What has this whole game been about? That's the stuff that just lights my brain on fire. Once that really sinks in that this shit is real, man. Not all of it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
This morning, Jeremy and I gave a talk focused on something called Kona Blue. So in 2019, I co- wrote a book with a guy who had been at the DIA. His name is Dr. James Lacatski. He and the project manager, Dr. Colm Kelleher, had been part of this program, AAWSAP, that was based
in Las Vegas, run by the DIA, the largest acknowledged government funded UFO study ever. It got into a lot of other weird stuff that came with UFOs but it was hugely ambitious. They created the largest UFO data warehouse in the world. Some 260,000 cases, all collated, all put together, a really valuable resource. They produced more than 100 highly detailed engineering reports about things like the Tic Tac; about human effects, when humans get too close to UFOs, what it does to them; serious health effects that have been really well documented by medical doctors. Those reports, not one single page of that stuff has been made public. But the work was done and part of the contract that AAWSAP had was... Look, Bigelow Aerospace in Las Vegas was supposed to get some of the goods. They made massive changes to the aerospace plant. It was a condition of the contract that they prepare to receive special materials. They never got it. When they went knocking on the door to ask for it, that's when the program got knifed and got kneecapped. A subsequent report, a program was proposed by the same people. They took it to Department of Homeland Security in 2011-2012, spent 15 months working it out. But what the documents just recently released earlier this year show is that this program, codenamed Kona Blue, was looking for the goods. And they use sort of code language but it doesn't take much to read between the lines. We are looking for special materials of unique origin to analyze. We wanna collect UFO information, analyze this stuff, see if we could duplicate the technology. Documents now available. AARO, the current UFO program, the cover-up agency by the Department of Defense, tried to use the Kona Blue document to discredit all these whistleblowers who gave testimony about crashed saucers and reverse engineering. But in fact it backfires because that program never existed, it was stopped before it could get going. But they convinced the Department of Homeland Security this stuff is real. We've got it, let's go get it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's so fascinating. I feel like it's so interesting how so many of these issues boil down to humanity, where like they kind of want credit. It's not that they are like even keeping it because they're like the highfalutin, it's gonna destroy the fabric of American society. They're literally like no, that's our shit. Yeah. Like that's our shit, we're gonna try to get something out of it for us.
JEREMY CORBELL
But there is a level of secrecy that has been persistent. And once you get up the food chain on this and you get... Luckily George and I have been able to really get high on that food chain of people who have direct knowledge. There's no intention of any of those agencies, group or individuals, to tell the world about UFOs, that it's real, there's a presence, it's been happening a long time. And the reason for that has still eluded us. Every time we get to that top moment, we feel like we're about to get a straight answer. It's ominous. They're like don't kick the lying dog is something that someone told us. Like it freaks me out because it is held so tight. Why out of everything in this world is this held so tight? And that I don't have an answer to yet. I don't.
ED LARSON
Yeah because open discourse amongst everyone would only improve our knowledge.
GEORGE KNAPP
The thing is there are inherent national security implications for this. There's just no getting around to it.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
There is a race for this technology. The highest level people who've worked on this that we have met and talked to and got to know really well say there is a race for it. We're trying to figure it out, duplicate it. And the Russians are and the Chinese, maybe the Israelis, maybe the Iranians, maybe a couple of other countries. There's a race for it. And whoever gets it first wins. And so our government might want to acknowledge at some level that this is real but they never wanna tell how much we know or how much progress we have made or haven't made to our adversaries because there is competition and the consequences are serious. There also is the unanswered question of what it is. We all say we're ready for the truth, we can handle it, let's hear it. We don't really know what it is.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Are we a farm? Are we a zoo? Are we an agricultural product? Did they genetically manipulate us to become who we are? And if so, where does that lead? What's the long range plan? We have no idea. But I mean once you open that door, the questions never stop coming.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
You can't just be a little bit pregnant kind of a thing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
I don't know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Tell me. No, I know. I mean it's also like that thing. I think that's the truth and I think that they're not prepared for the influx literally of just the constant mountain of questions. How much this is going to change stuff, how much this is like... What you're gonna have to deal with. The big answer is like well we don't know what they are, we don't know what they do, we kind of feel like they might be mad at us but we don't know anything else.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
What government wants to say that? What President wants to make that announcement?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
GEORGE KNAPP
You'd never get anything else done.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
How do people react? We don't really know.
JEREMY CORBELL
Well we've admitted we don't have 360 air dominance now. They admit UFOs/UAPs are real. They fly with impunity within our restricted airspace, they can turn on and off nuclear weapons. This is all documented in military files that have been FOIA'd or come out. So we've already admitted that there is a presence of an advanced technology. We don't know who made it, we don't know what the intent is, and we don't know the capability. So we're already kind of in the water. It's gonna be hard to get out of that because at this point we have admitted that our government, other governments have admitted UFOs are real. And so from there the questions are already starting to boil.
GEORGE KNAPP
There's also a human element to it. As I was told this by a congressional investigator who worked on the black budget many years ago, he says look, he went out to Area 51, I gave him a briefing, go here and look around. He couldn't find what he was looking for but he came back convinced it is real, we do have this technology, it's stashed away. And he said to me look, when this comes out, people are going to go to prison.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
I think a long time ago when this cover-up, our government cover-up started, there was probably a legitimate reason. We'd just come out of WWII, Cold War was beginning. How do we tell the public about this? What do you say?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
So we'll keep it secret. And since then, they've told so many lies to the public, to Congress, there's probably hundreds of millions of dollars from legitimate national security programs that have been absconded and moved into something else without permission. People would go to prison for this if it all came out. And I think that was part of what the Schumer legislation would have done is given them-
JEREMY CORBELL
Given them an out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
An out. Yeah, like a whistleblower.
JEREMY CORBELL
Straight up, Lockheed Martin wanted to divest... Lockheed Martin has UFO materials, likely a full UFO. On good sources, we know it to be true. Lockheed Martin tried to divest, take it out the back door, bring it in the front. So some companies realize they're gonna be in hot water if this shit comes out. And even the Canadian, one of the Canadian parliament members, the guy Larry, an MP, he wrote this letter. It's like we better get ahead of this. If we don't get ahead of this, our nation is not gonna trust us.
GEORGE KNAPP
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
So that's kind of where we're at, man.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So interesting.
JEREMY CORBELL
This is like easy way or hard way. The easy way is they stop lying and give the basics, just like we do about the nuclear programs. Nuclear bombs exist.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
We're not gonna give you the schematics how to build them. Same thing needs to happen with the UFO presence, the UFO reality. And if it doesn't, it's gonna happen the hard way and the hard way is gonna be leaks and whistleblowers and shit that's uncontrolled.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah. Catastrophic disclosure, that term.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah, that's a weird term. I don't know what that means, that it's catastrophic. Just disclose it. It doesn't matter. Easy way or hard way.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But they have really good recruiters in these intelligence agencies because if you gave me even one of these secrets, I'd just be walking around like you don't know what I know! It's crazy to not just get... Because I know they do get off on it. I think you have to have somebody who gets off on keeping secrets.
JEREMY CORBELL
That is true. But also so there is an element of that, like the Gollum ring. Like people like I know this and no one else does.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I know the secret.
JEREMY CORBELL
We've ran into that. But there's also people who are true patriots and see the dangers outweigh...
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
Here's the deal. As journalists-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I just forget about patriotism. I forget it's like a thing. I forget that people really do get up every day-
JEREMY CORBELL
It's gonna become Red Dawn with aliens, bro.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
But I mean as journalists, I'm following in his footsteps. Like there's a public need to know the fundamental truth that nobody has a right to hold back something that is natural, in the natural world, from the global and American public. That's bullshit. Ain't nobody my daddy. I never asked somebody not to tell me about the world.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
So that's where I'm at.
GEORGE KNAPP
I'm less ticked off by the secrecy that than I am by the lies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Sure.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Absolutely dumping on the public and misleading them and flat out lying.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And ruining people's lives along the way.
GEORGE KNAPP
Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
Straight up. And making it a laugh factory like this is not something for serious people to seriously look at. That was a deployed misinformation/disinformation campaign all the way back from the day. You can trace that back. You're supposed to not take it seriously. You're supposed to be a mockery if you even ask the question. Now where we are in 2024, it's a different world we're living in.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
When he started, they made jokes and cartoons about him being the crazy UFO guy.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah. Another little green men story in the news.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah. And now people are appreciating when you really can break some of this news. But it's hard, it's not easy. There's a lot of roadblocks to getting the truth out about this, whatever it might be. And I don't claim to know it.
ED LARSON
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Wow. All right.
ED LARSON
Now I guess there's no way to really prove this but how much alien technology is in everyday life, you think? Like do you think any of it or nothing? Some, none?
GEORGE KNAPP
I don't know of any for sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You don't think we got Wi-Fi from them? That's what they say.
GEORGE KNAPP
Well I mean Phil Corso, before that name went public, I was gonna write his book. We had reached out to each other-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah, from 'The Day After Roswell'.
GEORGE KNAPP
The Day After Roswell'. So I knew him four years before the book came out and we were working on it and he shared with me some claims. I mean I think they became exaggerated in the book that was eventually published. But he said night vision, we got a jump on night vision from the eyes of these beings. He said we got fiber optics from them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I remember that.
GEORGE KNAPP
Transistors.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, from the ship.
GEORGE KNAPP
A lot of really major industries and major consumer products and things that we use everyday that he said were given to national labs and private labs and just said hey, we've got this stuff. The assumption was it was from a crash of some foreign plane, Russian technology that the CIA had got. And they dished it out to industry to develop. Now you look at the history of those particular products. No company wants to say, oh yeah, we got this idea from aliens, it was all our idea.
ED LARSON
Yeah but I got it from apples.
GEORGE KNAPP
I think the examples could have been used to inspire some research on our part. I've heard stories from direct people that Jeremy and I know that a Russian UFO crash had been used to develop a weapon that they'd just been dying to use. I don't think it's like a mass annihilation kind of a weapon. But you see these examples where Russian craft are flying really close to our ships.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
And they come close to knocking down our spy planes and they're just like begging for us to engage with them so they can unleash this thing. I don't know what that weapon is but I'm told it's real, that they got it from somewhere else.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
All right.
ED LARSON
But they're in the middle of a war right now, wouldn't they be using it?
GEORGE KNAPP
You'd think, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They should be using it, yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
When do you unleash that?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Supposedly we have all this technology that's so far advanced, 25 years in the future, and it can fly to Mars. That's what Ben Rich is hinting, that it could go to the stars and take ET home. When the hell are we gonna break that stuff out?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Exactly. I feel like if China has the most exclusive drones in the world, they would definitely right now be saying like fuck you, Biden in the sky. You know what I mean? And then zapping. Like why would they hold back?
JEREMY CORBELL
The truth is even with the 2019 events off the West Coast, huge UFO event, swarm. We don't know whose technology those trans-meeting vehicles from pilots, some helicopter pilots seeing them go in and out of the water. Like we don't know to this day whose tech that is. I hear it's derivative technologies. We study this stuff, we try to get some derivative technologies through reverse engineering.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
But the throttle is the material science, to the best of my understanding, that we can't replicate atomic alignment. So we can't replicate because that's how you make metamaterials that have special properties like graphene, right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, the weird... Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Look up graphene on the internet, right. So it's like perfect alignment of atoms creates metamaterials. We can get derivative technologies but we can't replicate because of where we are with material science, like the full craft or the propulsion system. This goes all the way back to Bob Lazar. He says there's no way. There's no way we can physically make this at this time. One day we will be able to but now? Not now. So maybe we have some evolving to do before we can get there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
All right.
JEREMY CORBELL
Hey guys, Last Podcast on the Left-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We did this.
JEREMY CORBELL
You guys are fucking legends. Thank you.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You are! You are!
ED LARSON
Are you kidding me? That's very nice of you to say.
JEREMY CORBELL
Thank you for having us on, man.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You guys were wonderful. Thank you so much for talking to us. We didn't even get to our stupid game.
ED LARSON
That's fine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's great.
ED LARSON
That's good. I'm glad we didn't.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do we have time? Do we have? All right.
ED LARSON
Yeah? Do you mind? Are you guys-
JEREMY CORBELL
I love stupid games as long as I get to have a beer and stand on my head. I'm game, let's do this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, it's called Inside the Alien's Studio.
JEREMY CORBELL
Oh shit.
ED LARSON
What is your favorite word?
GEORGE KNAPP
Nordic. Actually my favorite word is onomatopoeia. But I don't know how to spell it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I don't know.
GEORGE KNAPP
It's a great word.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is a great word. What is your least favorite word?
JEREMY CORBELL
Sometimes fucking George Knapp.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Unbelievable!
JEREMY CORBELL
I don't know.
GEORGE KNAPP
Gurgle is not good.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, gurgle is a bad word.
JEREMY CORBELL
I don't got a least favorite word, man. All words are good if used right. Go.
ED LARSON
What turns you on?
GEORGE KNAPP
Nordics.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
I married one.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
UFOs, man. I'm a freak.
ED LARSON
Hell yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
What turns you off? It's like spiritual, you don't gotta worry about it, George. You've done enough in this life. You're strong enough.
ED LARSON
Yeah, you can easily tell us to go fuck ourselves whenever you feel like.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, yeah, at any point you can crack me in the mouth. I know it's easy to think.
JEREMY CORBELL
He just gives me a sign and I do that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
He ain't gonna hit somebody. And I'm good at it too.
ED LARSON
What sound do you love?
JEREMY CORBELL
Why are you asking me first? This is so much pressure. Ask him first.
ED LARSON
He just said he didn't wanna answer.
GEORGE KNAPP
Snap, crackle, and pop. That's good.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh he likes the cereal. Cereal man.
JEREMY CORBELL
My little 10 pound dog howling like a coyote.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Aw, that's good. What sound do you hate?
JEREMY CORBELL
I'm not doing the hate game, bro. You gotta ask him.
GEORGE KNAPP
Nothing comes to mind, I'm sorry. I'm not very good at this.
JEREMY CORBELL
Hold on, hold on, I got it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is not your fault, George.
JEREMY CORBELL
90% of the time, the sound of my own fucking voice. I am tired of talking.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, everyday.
ED LARSON
I do not listen to my own show. I refuse.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I hate it.
JEREMY CORBELL
It's your job though.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it's unfortunate.
ED LARSON
What is your favorite curse word?
GEORGE KNAPP
I'm a big fantastic of the F word.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep.
GEORGE KNAPP
Because it's so versatile.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes it is.
ED LARSON
Yeah. It means almost everything. What profession other than your own would you like to have?
GEORGE KNAPP
I always thought I was gonna be a lawyer. I thought I was gonna be a lawyer in college.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
Hand model. It sounds like the easiest job in the world.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It does.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
What's a profession you would not ever like to have?
GEORGE KNAPP
Hod carrier.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
Because I've has that profession and I don't like it. Also taxi driver because I was really bad at that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I can't. That's one of the most dangerous jobs.
GEORGE KNAPP
Driving now would be terrible.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL
Plumber because I'm always doing plumbing now.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it sucks.
JEREMY CORBELL
It sucks.
ED LARSON
Wrist deep in poopoo is no way to go through life.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Unless you're getting paid good money.
JEREMY CORBELL
Other people's poop. That's like my business, man, is real estate. Oh my god how many times I've had to unclog toilets for other people.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Ugh.
ED LARSON
All right. So this is the only controversial one.
JEREMY CORBELL
Uh oh.
ED LARSON
If heaven exists, what would you like god to say when you walk through the pearly gates?
GEORGE KNAPP
You can bring your dogs and cats with you.
ED LARSON
Aw.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
How many dogs and cats do you have?
GEORGE KNAPP
I don't have any dogs but I got 6 cats.
ED LARSON
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Wow! Hell yeah.
GEORGE KNAPP
When my wife leaves me, I'll be the crazy cat man of Sunrise Mountain. Don't go near the old Knapp place.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, don't go over there. You'll get toxoplasmosis.
JEREMY CORBELL
Good job, nice try, do it again.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah.
ED LARSON
Oh that's cool.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's great. Guys, thank you so much for doing this and being dumb with us.
ED LARSON
It was so nice to talk to both of you.
JEREMY CORBELL
It's an honor.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It ended up being way smarter than I thought it was gonna be. Thank you for that.
JEREMY CORBELL
I know, we look dumb but honestly, man...
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Thank you for bringing effort. Thank you, thank you, guys.
JEREMY CORBELL
Yeah. Thank you, guys. Yeah. I'm worried about you, your first UFO convention. If you consent to probing, have a good time.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
ED LARSON
Oh yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL
But hopefully you get some interesting experiences. I learn more-
ED LARSON
Dr. Cohen probed me last week so I'm fine.
JEREMY CORBELL
More than I need to know. But I learn more from people that come to these than from what George and I report on. So there's a lot to learn by engaging the people here. We have lots of fun, laughs and jokes. But there's some really, really in tune people who really are passionate about this. So you're gonna learn a lot from people that you meet at this thing.
GEORGE KNAPP
And also two striking young men like yourselves, you could probably get lucky here.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey, I saw a couple of widows that were really looking for a way out. They hadn't been hugged in a long time. So thank you, guys.
ED LARSON
Thank you.