HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hello nurse!
BEN KISSEL
Seduction.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Remember?
BEN KISSEL
Hello nurse.
MARCUS PARKS
Hello nurse!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hello nurse!
BEN KISSEL
What is that from?
MARCUS PARKS
Animaniacs.
BEN KISSEL
Oh yeah. Hello nurse.
MARCUS PARKS
Hello Nurse!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I wonder in that world, did the nurse kill 8 infants?
BEN KISSEL
Maybe that's the entire plot of Animaniacs and we don't know it, much like they say about rugrats where they're all dead.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They were like drowned in the tub I think?
BEN KISSEL
Something like that.
MARCUS PARKS
And it was 7 infants and it's allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Oh wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Thank you. Legally covered.
BEN KISSEL
Legally.
MARCUS PARKS
And I'll go ahead and say that is the last time I'll say that word this episode, legally covered for the rest of this episode, allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Blanket allegedly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's true and we did cover this a little bit on Side Stories but now-
BEN KISSEL
We're going to be covering it on The Last Podcast on the Left.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And Marcus has brought his his butt-like energy-
BEN KISSEL
Yes he did.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
To this property. Now we're staying current.
BEN KISSEL
We are.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Liz Truss.
BEN KISSEL
She's gone.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Saying words, we're here, we're in London town.
BEN KISSEL
London.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is foggy which I do think is kind of on the nose a little.
BEN KISSEL
It's an accurate stereotype. Ben, Marcus, and Henry hanging out. We had a fantastic evening in London. We had our beef wellingtons for the first time and if you do have a chance to get a beef welly take it because it was delicious.
MARCUS PARKS
It's a delicious meat pastry.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
People fuck it up though.
BEN KISSEL
They can.
MARCUS PARKS
They can.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They fuck it up.
MARCUS PARKS
I wouldn't have one in America.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, I would not have won in America.
BEN KISSEL
No, no. All right well speaking of fucking up, today's episode, it is current. We're on the tip of the cusp of modern crime.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Lucy Letby.
MARCUS PARKS
That's right.
BEN KISSEL
Let's just say not the nurse you want but the nurse some got.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
What is scarier than a nurse? I mean because it's spooky season and what's scarier than a nurse that makes Halloween decorations? Little baby skeletons.
BEN KISSEL
Not good. We'll get into it.
MARCUS PARKS
Nurse Lucy Letby is on trial right now. She is accused of the murder of 7 mostly premature babies and the attempted murders of 10 others. And honestly this case is like nothing I've ever seen.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because truly you came at this with a fascination because Kissel was kind of into it, you were fascinated with it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I was looking up pies. I was really in that frame of mind. I looked at some haunted places but still the news tracks go by about Lucy Letby, my first instinct when I saw it was maybe she just sucked at it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, that's what you were saying was like, 'I think maybe she's just bad. That's what they do when people are bad, they just move them around.'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But that is true. They do do that, Dr. Death showed that.
BEN KISSEL
They do do that.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They do do that but not in this case.
MARCUS PARKS
No.
BEN KISSEL
Unfortunately she was very good at committing murder.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We don't know, allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Allegedly.
MARCUS PARKS
While most killer nurses are so-called angels of death on power trips, maintaining their just putting sick patients out of their misery, Lucy Letby as we'll get into seems to have actually enjoyed the cruelty of the act.
BEN KISSEL
To be fair when I am old and I hit 90 I'm going to a hospital called Angels of Death and at this point it'll probably just be legal to put me out of my misery.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'm rooting for euthanasia.
BEN KISSEL
Thank you.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's also interesting because she kind of looks like Allie Mack from NXIVM.
MARCUS PARKS
Wow, she does.
BEN KISSEL
A little bit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She has a little bit of that semi hot white woman, wide-eyed like, 'I just love the children.' That vibe about her but it's more like, (British accent) 'I love the children.'
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But here I feel like aren't most nannies and nurses magical?
BEN KISSEL
Of course! They have umbrellas, they can fly, they can float.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Don't they play a whistle and their hat gets big and then they jump into it and the hat takes them to the next family where the father died in the war and she has to teach them all like how to shave and how they can get into the war?
BEN KISSEL
Mary Poppins. There's a statue of her, absolutely, right near where we're at.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Henry, you just combined Mary Poppins, Willy Wonka, and The Sound of Music.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's all the same.
MARCUS PARKS
That sounds fantastic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's the extended universe we need to create.
BEN KISSEL
And of course let's not forget the supporting cast of nazis in The Sound of Music, where is their appreciation?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Thank you.
BEN KISSEL
Come on. I also love your impression of a white woman, it's just Michael Jackson.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The ultimate white woman.
MARCUS PARKS
Well from what we've heard from testimony from the trial that's still ongoing, Lucy Letby seems to have relished in finding different ways to kill babies and she didn't do it painlessly either, say like Harold Shipman just putting the insulin in and letting them let them go to sleep. Instead Lucy Letby seems like she was hellbent on inflicting the maximum amount of pain and misery on what are arguably the most vulnerable human beings in existence: premature babies.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my god.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Honestly the only way I'd really search for cruel ways to kill babies is if they were all sort of controlled by nano machines and I was attacked by a group of 15-20 premature babies that I'd have to beat off with a shovel.
BEN KISSEL
Sure. But they're robotic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's not their fault.
BEN KISSEL
No, that's not their fault. And at that point you're mixing multiple genres here.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. You're mixing horror, you're mixing science fiction. That's too much.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'm reading a lot alone in the hotel room.
MARCUS PARKS
Lucy Letby, 32, from Hereford, England. I looked it up, I think it's 'Her-ferd'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
See, we're learning.
BEN KISSEL
Great.
MARCUS PARKS
She denies murdering five boys and two girls and attempting to murder another five boys and five girls between June 2015 and June 2016. But let's go through a bit of the timeline here as far as the investigation goes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
In July 2016 the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital, that's in Chester, right south of Liverpool, right southwest of Manchester.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So that's where if you're 15 years old you have to be drunk.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS
They stopped accepting premature infants born before 32 weeks, partly due to an unexplained high mortality rate in 2015 and 2016. Instead the premature infants were diverted to other hospitals in the northwest of England.
BEN KISSEL
My god.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Kind of reminds me of when we all lived in a really intense section of Brooklyn. Remember when there was that Woodhull Hospital?
MARCUS PARKS
Woodhull, yeah. I've been to Woodhull recently.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
It's worse than it's ever been.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's awful.
BEN KISSEL
Oh it hasn't gotten better?
MARCUS PARKS
It's gotten much worse. The walls are now noticeably stained.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Great.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And I remember people saying if you get shot in the waiting room at Woodhull you should call a taxi to take you to another hospital. So that's gotta be crazy thinking about that, so many babies died they had to just be like we gotta put a hold on this.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, pump the brakes a little bit.
MARCUS PARKS
To put it into perspective, the death rate of babies at this hospital was over 10% the average expected death rate for maternity wards in the UK.
BEN KISSEL
And it's just this one woman. See, you too can make a difference. And that's what this is all about.
MARCUS PARKS
Here's the escalation. Just two babies died at the Countess of Chester Hospital in 2013. In 2014 that number was three babies. Two, three, not bad.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
In 2015 eight babies died.
BEN KISSEL
Uh oh.
MARCUS PARKS
Then in 2016 five babies died by June.
BEN KISSEL
Dang.
MARCUS PARKS
So that's when five babies were dead by June, they were like, 'Cut it off, send them somewhere else. We gotta look into this shit. There's something wrong.'
BEN KISSEL
It seems like she was escalating then.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well it's also kind of nice that it wasn't like 25 babies. You know what I mean?
BEN KISSEL
She only had so many hours in the day, Henry.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They at least saw that. They were like let's stop now.
BEN KISSEL
That's true.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
And so a series of investigations was initiated to ascertain the reasons for the sharp rise in mortalities, with an independent review being carried out by the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health.
BEN KISSEL
Number one, we've got to look at the video games these kids are playing. Number two, what kind of music they listen to.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I do blame a lot of this on rock n' roll.
MARCUS PARKS
Despite this report finding some staffing levels quote unquote "inadequate", the Foundation Trust were unable to identify the fundamental cause of the high mortality rate with the independent report similarly finding quote "no single cause or factor identified to explain the increase seen in the mortality numbers". However suspicion fell on Lucy Letby when she went on vacation with her parents and the number of infants getting sick and dying significantly dropped.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I want to find out where she went on vacation and find out if the baby mortality rate rose up.
BEN KISSEL
No joke, dude.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
If they were down in Ibiza or something, you find out all these babies are dying at raves. First of all again, fentanyl. Everywhere.
BEN KISSEL
It's huge.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But then look for Lucy Letby.
BEN KISSEL
So she was so blatant, it was so obvious that she was the only variable.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
That was like as soon as it's removed, things change.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. But perhaps the biggest tell was the fact that when the infant mortality rate was high on the night shift where Lucy Letby was, they switched her to the day shift and then of course babies started dying on the day shift.
BEN KISSEL
Let's see what she can do in the light.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But I already started getting some emails when we briefly covered this on Side Stories, talking about this. And they do communicate within the hospital.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Everybody knows that there's sometimes on your shift, there's somebody that's not the sharpest syringe in the toolkit.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And they watch them, they kind of all notice because they they know that they are the line, they are the ones that are really on the ground.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They're watching all this shit happen. Especially nurses. And just thinking about that too. Think about that, you have to sit with this woman who's just like, (British accent) 'I love a child.' You're looking at her spacey face and blonde hair and shit and they're like, (British accent) 'Okay, let's try her in the morning, maybe she just gets grumpy.'
BEN KISSEL
Maybe it's a grumpy thing, yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
No, they talked to each other about it. There were text messages that came out around the time that five, six babies were dying I think in 2015. She got a text message from one of the other nurses just like, (British accent) 'You're not having a great run of it, are you?'
BEN KISSEL
Oh my goodness.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Because they never thought in a million years that she's fucking killing babies. They just thought oh my god, Lucy's having it really rough, she's having a lot of babies die. This is crazy.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is kind of like this is a really hardcore, this is very sad point of fact but I was watching an interesting documentary about this, the term is called forgotten baby syndrome which is that if you have a set day where basically you have a new baby, you're half asleep, you are kind of out of your mind.
BEN KISSEL
The nurses?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, this is just normal, like a parent. And then if there's maybe a change in your schedule that it leads to forgotten baby syndrome which is what they call it which is you accidentally leave the baby in the car all day.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And then the baby especially if it's hot cooks in there.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's really fucked up. But it was the story of this one dude that seemed to be again, allegedly, he might have done it on purpose because he was trying to get out of his family-
BEN KISSEL
Right, I know that story.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The guys were talking about the paramedics that had to do CPR on the babies and talking about how that is one of the worst things.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They all go into trauma services. It's worse than when you shoot a guy when you're on the job. Because it's horrible to lose a baby.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Must suck, dude.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're right, man.
BEN KISSEL
It must suck.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's a fucking bummer, dude.
MARCUS PARKS
It must fucking blow chunks, bro.
BEN KISSEL
Well I know for my truck, in my Chevy Silverado it says look in the backseat, baby check. And I'm like if I see a fucking baby back there I'm gonna freak out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
A lot of shit's going wrong.
BEN KISSEL
I know for a fact there's not one.
MARCUS PARKS
Well I mean I can also see why maybe Lucy Letby went under the radar for a while and why there were some of the nurses saying like you're having a real rough run of it because just recently, just in the last couple of weeks there was a report that came out that said that 45 babies who died at East Kent Hospitals Trust between 2009-2020 could have survived if they received better care.
BEN KISSEL
Jeez. It ain't easy to be a baby.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It really ain't, man. Babies are just little soft ketchup packets.
BEN KISSEL
I know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They can't tell you what's going on.
BEN KISSEL
No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And if they do, then you have to kill the baby because that baby is the antichrist.
BEN KISSEL
That baby's Boss Baby.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. And kill landlords.
MARCUS PARKS
But as far as Lucy Letby went, they arrested her and searched her home when they noticed the correlations and they found a note that said quote:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
"I don't deserve to live, I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough. I'm a horrible, evil person."
MARCUS PARKS
Then she wrote in all capital letters:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
"I AM EVIL. I DID THIS."
BEN KISSEL
Whoa. All right, well that seems like a confession unless of course she's looking at a series of dead chickens that she just put into some kind of chicken pie and felt guilty about it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But this was just put in the trial. They were talking about this and now her lawyers are doing the backpedaling.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah and we'll get to that once we get to the defense at the very end because it's fascinating what the defense is trying to come up with here.
BEN KISSEL
Fascinating.
MARCUS PARKS
But such was the authorities suspicion that she may have been killing a lot of babies quite often, they dug up her garden to see if they could find signs of infant remains.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Jesus Christ.
MARCUS PARKS
They thought maybe she was just grabbing babies, killing them, and burying them like she was some sort of infant Rose West.
BEN KISSEL
She had the time to garden? You're gonna kill all those kids, you got the time to make a dang daisy out there?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, if you got time to lean, you got time to bury a bunch of corpses in your garden.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my goodness. I'm starting to think anyone who gardens, they have potential to kill.
MARCUS PARKS
Potential. I'm actually very much looking forward to having a garden.
BEN KISSEL
We know you have the potential to kill but not the desire.
MARCUS PARKS
Exactly. The potential but not the desire. It's a very important distinction.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's a very low level of being a dictator of one plot of land. To be a small god to a bunch of tomatoes and decide if they live or die.
BEN KISSEL
I'll mow you right now.
MARCUS PARKS
And as the trial is currently happening as we're recording this, we've got some grisly details on just how Lucy Letby committed these murders. And I'm gonna go ahead and say these are some of the worst details of a serial killer that I've ever fucking heard.
BEN KISSEL
Nice.
MARCUS PARKS
But the details on who Lucy Letby actually is are still somewhat scant. We don't know a lot about her.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because again, from what I've seen, she was just a regular old woman.
MARCUS PARKS
Super regular.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Just no track of aberrant behavior, not that we have seen. I was looking it up today and it just seemed that she always loved babies, that I know. She has talked about this for a long time about wanting to be a nurse. And then I do wonder if there is a little bit that came out in those notes she wrote to herself which is kind of true is that maybe it's a little bit of the middle way that we talk about all the time, was that she does suck at it and then in her anger at herself for sucking at it, she also then does horrible things.
BEN KISSEL
Who knows? I'm thinking perhaps she couldn't get pregnant and has some sort of anger towards children for existing. But that's just speculation, who knows.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That is in one of her notes, it says being like I'll never have a family, no one will love me, I'll never have my own kids. So I have to take kids from other people.
BEN KISSEL
But this is not gonna help.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No.
MARCUS PARKS
No, it's not gonna help at all.
BEN KISSEL
That's not how you go about adoption.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, yeah. Cause that's the thing, you got to wonder at this point did she get into nursing so she could kill babies or did it just come upon her as she was in her nursing career? We have no fucking clue.
BEN KISSEL
It might just be one of those things that's attached to it like when you get to travel for work. Isn't that nice?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're right. So it's like hotel points.
MARCUS PARKS
Well according to the highly unreliable Daily Mail, Jordan Sands-
BEN KISSEL
(B Unreliable.
MARCUS PARKS
Highly unreliable. I'll tell you what, I'll remember this, for the longest time Daily Mail was the number one source of stories for Roundtable of Gentlemen.
BEN KISSEL
That's why it's unreliable.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's reliable for content.
MARCUS PARKS
Well Jordan Sands, the boyfriend of one of Lucy's friends, described Lucy as a kind hearted but awkward person and that's the worst that anyone could say about her.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Another person whose name must remain anonymous-
BEN KISSEL
That's a weird name.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Funny. Funny stuff.
MARCUS PARKS
Termed the nurse as quote unquote "an amazing person".
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
One of her neighbors told the Daily Mail quote:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) "I knew her when she was a little girl and she was as sweet as anything. I've seen her grow up and she seemed a lovely woman. So this news is deeply and utterly shocking. I can't fathom it."
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
There's a little bit more.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) "When you hear these sorts of things, you always get one or two people saying I thought there was something fishy about them. But with Lucy, all you hear is positive things."
BEN KISSEL
Well I'm hearing some negative things at this point I must say.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It seems in her career.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, or in her life. It was never like Fred and Rose West, to bring him up again because we just covered them, everyone knew don't go over to their house, they're fucking awful, they're horrible people.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
MARCUS PARKS
With Lucy Letby, nothing. Absolutely nothing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But I feel like this is kind of where it happens.
BEN KISSEL
Makes it scarier almost.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's just all in her own head.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I feel if it is indeed found to be true, I think that she will obviously be the subject to a lot of psychological analysis. They're gonna look at her again.
BEN KISSEL
Oh yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
She will never admit to it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh no, she won't break down.
BEN KISSEL
Well who knows? Maybe when she's incarcerated or something. But I will say there's a beautiful actress in Hollywood right now that's gonna win an Oscar for looking just slightly ugly when she plays Lucy Letby in the Lucy Letby tale.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. And it better be a fucking American. We need to take this.
BEN KISSEL
You wanna switch it around?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep.
MARCUS PARKS
Take the narrative back.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
I mean Lucy Letby was so credible that she was even the face of a $2.6 million appeal for the hospital to build a brand new pediatric unit back in 2013, two years before the murders started.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was always stressing about how quick the turnaround was.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, that's actually just an indictment on British faces because they were looking for a model and they're like Lucy, you're it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She's just got that... I guess she's kind of bland.
BEN KISSEL
Well she's very plain.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She's kind of bland in a way.
MARCUS PARKS
She's got one of those like three british faces.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
There's the round, the oval, and the narrow and she's got the narrow.
BEN KISSEL
We can say this because we're white and we're British descent.
MARCUS PARKS
86% British right here.
BEN KISSEL
You can say it.
MARCUS PARKS
I can say it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I felt it a little bit when we were in Ireland, I did kind of see my people a lot, there was a lot of that.
BEN KISSEL
I felt it, yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. No, no, I see you in Ireland very much so. Now every time we go to Ireland I always look at you and just think goddamn.
BEN KISSEL
There's a lot of him.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
It's like multiplicity.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's a lot of the tinier dog in Looney Tunes running around trying to fight each other. It does feel like that.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Totally.
MARCUS PARKS
But concerning the trial, in one testimony a mother of twins said she walked in on Lucy Letby attempting to murder one of her baby boys. Lucy Letby then told the mother, quote:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) "Trust me, I'm a nurse."
BEN KISSEL
Uh oh.
MARCUS PARKS
Lucy Letby was trying to kill the five day old boy when his mother arrived on the neonatal ward with his milk, jurors were told.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Allegedly.
MARCUS PARKS
Allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
The almighty A word.
MARCUS PARKS
The infant, the mother said, was quote unquote "acutely distressed" and as I said before, this is going to get fucking awful, bleeding from the mouth. The woman did not realize Letby was allegedly in the process of attacking her son and was quote unquote "fobbed off" by the alleged killer.
BEN KISSEL
Wait, hold on. What does that mean?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's another way of saying... I do love all the you can go gob yourself, grip a Richard. They have all sorts of different sayings here that I really do like. But I feel like this is kind of the crux of her crimes is that statement, "Trust me, I'm a nurse."
BEN KISSEL
Oh that's so scary.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Cause it's that thing of that's why she got to this lofty position.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's why we find that predators and bullies winnow their way into being cops and politicians and doctors and shit like that because it's a power position that no one can counter you on.
BEN KISSEL
In America there's a trust me, I have a YouTube channel. I could never.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I literally felt like that. We saw some crime going on, we were joking about that. It was all these police standing around, we wanted to walk up like hey listen, we run a true crime podcast.
BEN KISSEL
I think we can handle this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Let me take a crack at it.
BEN KISSEL
Take a crack at it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You wanna see my gun?
MARCUS PARKS
Well the infant who weighed just under 3 lbs at birth rapidly deteriorated and was pronounced dead less than five hours after Letby was seen attacking him, the jury was told.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
A doctor present said he quote "had never seen a baby bleed like this" and that the child lost more than a quarter of his total blood volume. Baby E's death, and that's how they put it, Baby A, Baby B, Baby C-
BEN KISSEL
Oh okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, they don't name the babies.
MARCUS PARKS
It goes up to Baby M.
BEN KISSEL
I mean no joke, they may not have had names yet.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's why we made it to an I-Z.
MARCUS PARKS
They made it to M. That's right.
BEN KISSEL
And that's the real horror story.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, mid season cancellations.
BEN KISSEL
Oh what? But you still pay me until we get to Z, right? Oh okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Well Baby E's death was initially put down to a gastrointestinal disorder that can occur in premature babies. No postmortem was undertaken, this authorities said was quote "a big mistake".
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, a big wallyrue, that's another term that they use.
MARCUS PARKS
Well experts later concluded that Baby E died as a result of gas intentionally injected into his bloodstream.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my god.
MARCUS PARKS
And quote "bleeding indicative of trauma".
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Now gas is kind of just the nature of the element. I think that's how they put it scientifically but it's air.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's what we covered a little bit but again these details are now coming out because all of the medical examiners are literally currently talking about it on British court television.
BEN KISSEL
They are having a field day with it. This is Casey Anthony times, what?
MARCUS PARKS
Times 7.
BEN KISSEL
Times 7.
MARCUS PARKS
Times 7 plus 10.
BEN KISSEL
Plus others.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Well after killing the child, this is where it gets truly into serial killer territory, Letby then took an unusual interest in the twins' family, searching for them on social media two days after Baby E's death and several times over the following months, even on Christmas Day.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my god, that is so effing crazy and scary. It's like The Hand That Rocks The Cradle a little bit. She's like Rebecca de Mornay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I really think that maybe that again, it is either entitlement, again allegedly, entitlement or it's I can't have kids, now I'm gonna take them.
MARCUS PARKS
Maybe. Maybe she was hanging out with her family, she's got a sister or brother with kids and so she goes and she looks.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well you know how it is with old Jacob, you know.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They're all putting pajamas on the kid and stuff and you're just sitting there just getting more and more angry and what is supposed to be the most like idyllic peaceful scene in human nature.
BEN KISSEL
Oh man.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
I blame Christmas.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I blame Christmas.
BEN KISSEL
Sure.
MARCUS PARKS
Well the nurse allegedly quote unquote "wiped out" the mother's visit from the medical records then falsely claimed to be in another room when Baby E collapsed. This the prosecution alleged was Letby trying to maintain an alibi in someone else's medical records.
BEN KISSEL
Covering up the crime.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, that makes sense. This is now where before I didn't know all the details where you start to see the track.
MARCUS PARKS
The coverup.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But then again, if you're a lawyer you say that's just cause she sucked and how many times I had to milk the hour.
MARCUS PARKS
You know how many guys I've sent to the chair by accident?
BEN KISSEL
Seriously, I'll send you there right now. But she did actively go brush it up, cover it up.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
BEN KISSEL
So she knew what she was up to.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She knew that they were coming for her.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Jurors were told that Letby - this story is not over with this family. Jurors were told that Letby then took a sinister interest in Baby E's twin brother, six day old Baby F. The nurse allegedly administered a feeding bag laced with insulin to Baby F less than 24 hours after she'd allegedly killed the other baby. But Baby F survived.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
My question is how is she not immediately busted? I guess it's again it comes down to just human error and or I guess you'd say oh she's traumatized, the other baby died, now her head is not in the right place. And then they must have taken her off of that family, right?
BEN KISSEL
Isn't there's something also to the idea that you don't want to believe this nurse is killing premature babies.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Who would ever do that?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I think that's what the guy was talking about with the forgotten baby syndrome, I think it was Russ Hauser, I'm gonna look up his proper name. But it's the same thing, I think the reason why he did it on purpose because then again when people come questioning how could any father kill his two year old baby this way? And that's why you can be like you think that because you have now dissociated from any sort of morality at all.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because you are so selfish and so wrapped up in your own bullshit that you just think well this is the ultimate unquestionable crime.
BEN KISSEL
Well that was the guy texting with that chick you wanted to bang too, right? That was that story where he was texting with that chick he was having the affair with.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes, yes, yes. But he was having sex with children, he was having sex with 16 year olds.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Well another of Lucy Letby's alleged victims, a three month old child, was left with irreversible brain damage after Letby tried three times to kill her by injecting milk and air into her nasogastric tube.
BEN KISSEL
Jeez.
MARCUS PARKS
The jury was then shown a diagram that explained how inflating an infant's stomach with excess milk or air could cause them to stop breathing. Apparently if you're trying to murder a child in a neonatal unit, this is a fairly effective way of doing it because it doesn't leave much of a trace.
BEN KISSEL
So it's like how john Morrison died in his own puke? Is that basically it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
They literally vomit it up?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Jim Morrison.
MARCUS PARKS
Jim Morrison.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
John Morrison was his father who died thinking about his son whipping his dick out at concerts.
BEN KISSEL
Oh, John Morrison is actually a pro wrestler who took Jim Morrison's character. Yes, Jim Morrison.
MARCUS PARKS
Jim Morrison allegedly died of a heart attack. Jimi Hendrix choked on his own vomit.
BEN KISSEL
I can't keep up with these rock stars and their rock star lifestyle.
MARCUS PARKS
Jim Morrison died in a bathtub.
BEN KISSEL
Oh no shit?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, supposedly his heart just gave out but some say he just faked his own death. But I don't know about that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Why would he not be out there, man?
BEN KISSEL
He's now Jane Morrison.
MARCUS PARKS
I went to his grave a few days ago, I feel like he's in there.
BEN KISSEL
You think he was in there? Did you knock on the door? Put your ear up, listen to some tunes?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, smells like bacon fat and wine.
BEN KISSEL
Great.
MARCUS PARKS
Now jurors were told last week that Letby quote "was the only constant presence" when three babies died and one suffered a life threatening collapse in two weeks on the neonatal unit in June 2015.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Damn.
MARCUS PARKS
Lucy Letby also allegedly killed two out of three triplet boys and smiled after killing another premature baby girl on the fourth attempt.
BEN KISSEL
Man, she is fucking frightening.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Again, or she's just a shattered person. Because there are stress responses where you can smile and laugh and shit, like how people respond to technically what are a bunch of negligent acts that led to horrible tragedies. So now she's kind of on a roll, if it's true, right, the other side if she's just fucking up again and again and again. But the idea of that because there also seems to be something connected to triplets and twins.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, well I think it's also because triplets and twins are often born premature.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Born premature, born smaller, they need a lot more care.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
You could really wipe out an entire family.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
And authorities said quote "Baby I was born very early and very small but she survived the first two months of her life and was doing well by the time Lucy Letby got her hands on her."
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Jesus.
MARCUS PARKS
Letby is accused of repeatedly pumping Baby I with massive amounts of gas over a period of two months when she had to be resuscitated by Letby's colleagues. On one occasion the University of Chester graduate was seen standing in the doorway of the girl's darkened room, quote "cooly watching a baby who was in crisis, doing nothing".
BEN KISSEL
God she's fucking scary.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Again this is presenting the case because it's just so weird. Again, these are all the little character pieces to start to fill out who this person actually is.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The idea of watching... But I guess if you're in that job, I think people criticize, I see in a lot of my true crime videos people criticize 911 call responders like about how cold they sound.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But again the whole point is that they have to be a pinion of quote unquote "sanity".
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They're supposed to be clinical, get you the information, route the people that need to be there, and also field for when people call that are non emergencies.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
All that type of shit.
MARCUS PARKS
911 operators are basically machines.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
That's what they have to be, they have to turn off their humanity and just be a fucking automation machine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They gotta because they are doing an incredibly important service which is you got to get the information through the pipes correct.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. Because if you're like someone's been shot, they're like, 'Someone's been shot!? Oh my god!'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh my god!
BEN KISSEL
No, never mind. Now you're consoling them and then the whole thing falls apart.
MARCUS PARKS
New guy's in the corner puke his guts out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
All because you wanted some new brake pads.
BEN KISSEL
Validate?
MARCUS PARKS
Letby was also questioned by police about why she had sent a sympathy card to the baby's parents.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So weird.
BEN KISSEL
Oh god, that's so creepy.
MARCUS PARKS
She said this was the only time she had done it but it is not often the nurses got to know a family as well as Lucy had known Baby I's parents. That's what she did, she got much closer... Usually there's again like the 911 operators, there's a bit of a distance.
BEN KISSEL
You have to.
MARCUS PARKS
You can't get involved with these people's lives. But the families of the babies she killed, she brought them closer because she wanted to see the trauma.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So it was a Munchausen by proxy thing too.
MARCUS PARKS
Yes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because then now I get to be a part of your tragedy.
BEN KISSEL
And I get to console you, right?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my goodness. So do you think it was the killing of the babies that got her off or watching the suffering of the parents that got her off?
MARCUS PARKS
I think both. Absolutely both because listen to this. She admitted to officers that she had kept an image of the card that she sent to the dead baby's parents on her phone which is a case of a serial killer trophy if I've ever fucking heard one.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Weird.
MARCUS PARKS
Because that's the thing, that's what serial killer trophies are so they can go back. That's why they keep the driver's licenses so they can go back and relive it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Relive it.
MARCUS PARKS
She's got a picture of that sympathy card on her phone so she can look at that whenever she wants to remember the time she killed that baby and she remembers the trauma that the parents went through.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Weird.
MARCUS PARKS
She remembers all of it. It's a trophy. It's a fucking digital trophy. It's a NFT serial killer trophy.
BEN KISSEL
And that's what we're here to talk about. Everyone gets a trophy in this generation. We need more competition with our children.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's so strange because I've never heard... This is highly unique.
MARCUS PARKS
Highly.
BEN KISSEL
I've never heard anything like it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
If this all plays out that she's guilty, it is very unique in crime because I've never heard this style. Because again, it's just that, those little hooks where you're like it's a serial killer's activity.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Scary.
MARCUS PARKS
That was the one, that was the detail that kind of blew my mind of the whole case. I've never seen anything like this, this is crazy. I don't know if nobody has ever existed like this or...
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Or if they never got caught.
MARCUS PARKS
Or there might be something to do with technology and bringing Facebook into it, like this is a new way of serial killer operating.
BEN KISSEL
It is, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
It's just the evolution of the serial killer.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because back in the day, remember the movie One Hour Photo?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, love that movie.
BEN KISSEL
Oh so good. So good.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But the guy, Robin Williams' character becomes obsessed with people through these private moments that he gets to experience on the side. But now we literally have social media that you can kind of almost in your fantasyland I'm with their family too. And oh what a tragedy. And now you get to be a part of somebody else's narrative, somebody's thinking of you now.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Parasocial on steroids.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, I think so. But that's the thing, following Baby I's death on October 23, Letby ask the parents if they wanted to bathe their baby daughter.
BEN KISSEL
Ugh.
MARCUS PARKS
The court was told that as the baby's mother bathed her recently departed child, Lucy Letby came into the room and in the words of the mother was quote "smiling and kept going on about how she was present at Baby I's first bath and how much Baby I had loved it."
BEN KISSEL
Oh my god.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That is just so weird. Also is that normal?
MARCUS PARKS
To bathe? Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
To bathe the dead baby?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, especially with premature babies to do some sort of motherly thing or a parental type thing.
BEN KISSEL
Oh it's like a ritual thing for healing?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, for a healing thing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
You get to be a little closer.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, sure.
MARCUS PARKS
You get to have a little bit of closure to it, you feel a little bit more connected.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah of course.
MARCUS PARKS
It's very common.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
I'm not judging anybody.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No.
BEN KISSEL
They're going through grief but it's a little macabre.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's just a lot, it's a lot.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I had a coworker once that was... I remember I was working at this office job, it was temp to perm, I was temp.
BEN KISSEL
You didn't get the perm?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, no, I did get the perm and that's where I worked with Holden McNeely. But I was sitting in a cubicle and they told me that the woman who sat there before, she had just quit and they had found she had all these pictures of her baby all dressed up, all these little glamour shots of her baby. And they're like oh your baby, oh that's so sweet, how old is she? And then they're like well actually she was born dead and then we did a photoshoot with her body and then all of the pictures at the office, man. At the office.
BEN KISSEL
It's a lot.
MARCUS PARKS
Fuck!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's just a hard conversation. I know it's very personal and it means a lot. I get it, I get it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'm not yucking your yum. Is that the term?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Nice.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It just more that at the office it's a hard ice breaker.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah it is.
BEN KISSEL
It's a lot. Yeah. But I guess we've been doing that since we had photography I suppose.
MARCUS PARKS
Oh yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Especially dead babies. People used to photograph dead babies all the time especially at the advent of photography.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Great, great. I mean it's just like I'm a photographer. Oh what do you specialize in?
MARCUS PARKS
Well that was Baby I. But by the time Baby L was attacked in April 2016 almost a year later, well no, not almost a year later, about six months later, doctors at the hospital had grown a bit suspicious of Lucy Letby.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Something's going on, huh?
MARCUS PARKS
By this time Letby was supposed to only be working day shifts because the consultants were concerned about the correlation between her presence and unexpected deaths/life threatening episodes on the night shift.
BEN KISSEL
So they just gave her a better schedule?
MARCUS PARKS
Well I mean that's the thing, during the day shift there are more people there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
There's more people. There's more oversight.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, there's more oversight.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Cause they're still kind of hoping, because again what we just said-
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's a crime that no one thinks that anybody would commit.
BEN KISSEL
How could anyone? Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's so beyond the pale that like they just thought maybe she's really bad and that we just got to look at her. But then how do you eventually take it away? How do you go in and and say hey, let's move you to reception.
BEN KISSEL
And there is something about the mask that she wore which is again a very vanilla woman.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Bland.
BEN KISSEL
If she looked like the doctor from Reanimator maybe people would be a little bit more suspicious.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, Dr. Crossbow just shows up with two bleeding red eyes and stuff like, 'I'm in oncology!' He might be great. We should not judge a book by its cover.
BEN KISSEL
No, definitely not.
MARCUS PARKS
Well one consultant walked in on Letby trying to kill Baby K after the consultant had grown concerned about the baby being left alone with her. That's how much the suspicion came to be.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
It was like let's move into the day shift and then as they looked into her more and more it's like I don't even want to leave her alone with the child.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
The consultant began to feel uncomfortable when he realized Letby was alone with the child because the consultant was beginning to notice the coincidence between the unexplained deaths/serious collapses and the presence of Lucy Letby. When he walked into the room he noted that the infant's breathing tube was dislodged.
BEN KISSEL
Jesus.
MARCUS PARKS
Apparently she was trying to kill Baby K when the pediatric consultant walked in on her because that's what she was always counting on is that I'm in here by myself, someone walks by the window, they see I'm in here. Oh Lucy's got it, they're not gonna come in.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
But then this person comes in. Letby allegedly used the hemophilia of another child known as Baby N as a cover under which to attack him. The disease which causes bleeding for no reason was attributed to many of the episodes involving the infant boy. In one instance the infant's throat was so swollen and covered with fresh blood that a consultant was unable to get a breathing tube down.
BEN KISSEL
Damn.
MARCUS PARKS
This is what one of the medical experts wrote and this is I think one of the most harrowing notes I have ever read by any medical professional. "This is life threatening. He was also noted to be screaming and apparently cried for 30 minutes. This is most unusual. I have never observed a premature neonate to scream."
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Good lord.
BEN KISSEL
Oh god, that's scary.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it's fucked up.
BEN KISSEL
To scream. Oh my goodness.
MARCUS PARKS
You wanted Halloween, motherfuckers.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is Halloween.
BEN KISSEL
Well yes, the residual effects here is now this hospital is very haunted.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
That's what I will say.
MARCUS PARKS
Oh yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But that baby lived.
MARCUS PARKS
No, that baby died.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
God dang.
BEN KISSEL
They died. Oh my god.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, that baby, that neonate screamed for 30 minutes and then died.
BEN KISSEL
Sad.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's terrible.
BEN KISSEL
Little life.
MARCUS PARKS
Well that's why Lucy Letby is so insane to me, that was the second thing that really got me is that it's not just a hotshot.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They're not just going to sleep, yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, they're not just going to sleep. It is intentional harm, it is making it cruel, it's making it hurt. That's the biggest thing, she's making it hurt.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But that's why you can't ever tell. Sometimes you just look into her spacy eyes and you just don't know.
BEN KISSEL
You just don't know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She's a monster, she's a fucking monster.
MARCUS PARKS
Now as far as the defense has been-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Allegedly.
BEN KISSEL
Very good.
MARCUS PARKS
Allegedly monster, yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Nice.
MARCUS PARKS
Now as far as the defense has been going in Lucy Letby's trial, things to put it lightly are not going well.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No.
BEN KISSEL
What do you mean?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Basically it sounds like just skidding wheels. They're really trying to figure out how to get her out of there because they're like, (British accent) 'Don't we all hate babies?' That's how he starts.
BEN KISSEL
Everyone deserves a defense. They're doing their job.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, she's pled not guilty but the defense has claimed that there is no evidence she is behind the deaths of seven babies. Jurors at Manchester Crown Court were told blame had been heaped on the nurse and to consider that coincidence may be at play. Consider it.
BEN KISSEL
Let's consider it.
MARCUS PARKS
Consider it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Ugh.
BEN KISSEL
It's tough.
MARCUS PARKS
Well her defense lawyer showed the jury a prosecution exhibit, a grid with the names of staff on duty across the top and across one side the names of the children allegedly attacked. An X marked Letby being on duty at the time when a child was said to have been harmed or killed 8 times on day shifts, 16 times on night shift.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The defense said that this was a self serving document. He claimed that it does not show the treatment each child was receiving, the health of the baby in question, collapses by babies when he was not present, shortcomings and care of others, how busy the unit was, and what Letby was doing at the time of each event.
BEN KISSEL
And what kind of music are these kids listening to?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Aagin, it's Nu Metal.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's not Rap Rock.
BEN KISSEL
Which is no longer new.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's new to me.
MARCUS PARKS
Well that's the thing, it's new forever because it's N-U. It's Nu.
BEN KISSEL
They know what they've done, yes.
MARCUS PARKS
It's Nu Metal. Her defense also cited the post-it notes, the one "I am an evil person, I did this." Letby have allegedly written Of course "I am evil, I did this" as well as "I don't deserve to live, I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to take care of them" on bits of paper. And her defense argued, quote:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) "This is the anguished outpouring of a young woman in fear and despair when she realizes the enormity of what's being said about her." It's cancel culture.
BEN KISSEL
Wait, did they literally say cancel culture?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, no, no.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) "In the moment to herself that she wrote publicly to be read." That's their main thing is that she's swimming with her whole life falling apart and she wrote all these sort of maudlin emo notes about how I'm a monster, I am evil.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(British accent) I must have did this, of course I did this. Which it just don't help.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
No, it doesn't.
MARCUS PARKS
No, it doesn't.
BEN KISSEL
You would think if she didn't do it, she wouldn't have wrote that she did do it.
MARCUS PARKS
Well the whole argument is that she was saying I did this as in I'm not good at my job.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'm not good at my job.
BEN KISSEL
Well those can both be correct.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's why I think that there's a fucked up mix.
BEN KISSEL
She may have done the first one on accident. Who knows? I mean who knows?
MARCUS PARKS
Could be.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The first couple. And then all of a sudden you've already kind of just hopped in.
BEN KISSEL
So I just fell into being a nurse of death.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's how it is. You've already done it, you've already crossed the fucking Rubicon.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Bringing it back.
BEN KISSEL
It's like when you're a radio programmer and the host is gone. They're like you've got to fill in, Phil!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
And now I've done radio for 30 years.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's how it all starts.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Well that's what the lawyer says, her defense. Or the barrister, that's what he says.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Very good.
BEN KISSEL
Is that what they're called here?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, they're called barristers.
BEN KISSEL
Barristers.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. I'm probably wrong about that. Maybe it's barrister when they're doing it in a paperwork capacity and a lawyer or an attorney.
BEN KISSEL
Defense.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But they have wigs on, right?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, they got wigs.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Cool.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, they all got wigs.
BEN KISSEL
I kinda also appreciate it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I used to think it was silly but now it's kinda fun.
MARCUS PARKS
I love the wigs.
BEN KISSEL
I think this case was delayed because all the lawyers went on strike.
MARCUS PARKS
Well that wasn't all the lawyers, that was the public defense lawyers.
BEN KISSEL
Oh it was the public defense lawyers.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Which they should because they deserve more money.
MARCUS PARKS
They really do, they deserve a lot more fucking money. But concerning Lucy Letby saying I did this, I killed them...
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
The defense is arguing she had gotten fired at that point, she had no job, so she was stressed that she didn't have a job.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I bet you she is real stressed.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I mean they're still coming out, there is medical reports that need to come out. Right? Because that is still a part of now of like we need to look at the hard reports that say this is how these babies died.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. A fair amount of them have. They're out there, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's rolling out, it's all rolling out now. It's just that thing where you're like damn dude, can you be so bad at your job that you become evil?
BEN KISSEL
I think we'll have a Relaxed Fit update.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. There's no way any of this is an accident. Every single one of them are so blatant and it's beyond accident.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No it's fucked up.
MARCUS PARKS
You can't accidentally fucking squirt milk into a premature baby's stomach.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa, I just slipped and I fell on this pile of milk!
MARCUS PARKS
Things don't look good for Lucy Letby. But soon enough I think it's pretty safe to say there's no way in hell Lucy is getting out of this one and she just may go down as one of the cruelest serial killers in England's history which is a hard club to get into.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
No kidding. And we were discussing can you be a serial killer these days? We had the Stockton shooter and now this is very...
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I always find that stupid hot take style of article. Like the age of the serial killer is over. And just being like unfortunately man, that truck keeps on rolling.
BEN KISSEL
Yes it does.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Also 2015 and 2016, weird years, weren't they?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, they really were.
BEN KISSEL
The whole effing world.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Especially here for all of us.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And again, I feel like there's also a little bit of that, that the chaos does sort of cover things up that was happening at the time. People are trying to figure out, the whole society is fucking shifting out from underneath them, trying to figure out what to do, how to make sense of everything. And then all of a sudden somebody's just killing babies real random.
BEN KISSEL
Making sense in a senseless world.
MARCUS PARKS
That's right.
BEN KISSEL
All right everyone, thank you so much for listening.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This really is fucked up.
BEN KISSEL
It is.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is a fucked up story.
BEN KISSEL
Harrowing and recent which makes it so much more personal.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is a fucked up case.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is absolutely fucked up.
BEN KISSEL
It is. What was the name of the guy that you wanted to mention?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
His name is Cooper Harris. And there's an interesting special on him.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But the worst part about it, again it's about performative aspects of shit. Where she, Lucy Letby, the way she kind of acted was nonchalant.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And being like I'm a nurse, this is my job, I'm in control. I love my job, I do it well. And I think that that was her cover. Where this dude what he did was first of all little things that really pointed towards it was that up to the days leading up to when his son was basically... He died, legally I have to say he died, right? Was that Justin Ross Harris was constantly googling what happens when you leave a baby in a hot car.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my god. Well what do you freaking think, buddy?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was the Casey Anthony-
MARCUS PARKS
How to suffocate a child, xanax, yeah, yeah, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's literally what he did. Then he looked up this video that he kept showing his wife, that he was like look at this, this is my worst nightmare. Babe, this is my worst nightmare leaving a baby in the car. Right? This is three days before the fucking baby dies in the car. And then what you then find out is that he does this whole act out where he's screaming in the street.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And then the cop asks for his ID and in the body cam footage you see him literally go like, 'What do you my ID for?' And you're like that's a quick switch.
BEN KISSEL
Weird. Yeah, dude.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And then they told him that he was being filmed in the interrogation room. And as he's sitting in the interrogation room by himself, he's literally going, 'Why?! Why?! How could I have done this?'
BEN KISSEL
And he did not get a BFA like Henry did.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No. And then the cop comes in.
MARCUS PARKS
He didn't get asked to play Blues Brother at Universal Studios Orlando.
BEN KISSEL
He definitely did not, no.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He didn't make the cut.
BEN KISSEL
He did not.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I didn't make the BFA program.
BEN KISSEL
Oh.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They said I was too fat to train.
BEN KISSEL
What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And then I booked every show I auditioned for.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's called fucking life, all right. Fucking stick by your own self, no one's looking out for you, look out for your fucking self, all right?
BEN KISSEL
Great.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But in the interrogation room the cop goes to talk with him like okay, so he's crying and making it all a big to do about it.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But the thing is that he made all these quick phone calls. And they kept asking him what did you do with the phone calls? He was like I was trying to tell the daycare that things were bad and then tell them to keep my wife, make sure my wife doesn't know.
BEN KISSEL
Oh man.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And it was obviously horseshit. But it turns out they ask him how's your relationship going? He's like great, we're doing great. And then cut to turns out she was in the process of looking for a new home, she was going to buy a new spot so she could leave him because she found him sending sexual text messages to children for a long period of time.
MARCUS PARKS
And by children, how old? Because children, when you say children I think like-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
15, 16.
MARCUS PARKS
Okay. Cause when you say children, I think 12 and under. So you gotta you gotta specify teenagers.
BEN KISSEL
15, 16.
MARCUS PARKS
Underage. Just say teenagers.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
When I see a 15 year old I see a child.
BEN KISSEL
I see a child.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah but when you just say children it's confusing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well... This is his hard line.
BEN KISSEL
I know.
MARCUS PARKS
I know I'm sounding like a guy who's like actually it's called ephebophilia.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But it's the whole thing where now you're looking at they did all that in the trial, right. So he got life in prison without parole.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They said they got guilty because at the very end of it, they're like so we're booking you right now.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And he goes white as a sheet. You could see it in the police interrogation room where he was just like why would that need to happen? It's like this was a horrible accident.
BEN KISSEL
You guys don't understand. I have a plan here and one of the parts of it is that I don't get arrested. So let's just redo, do you want to take the scene again?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because also he didn't want to give them the phone because they're gonna find out that he has literally cheated on his wife over 35 times with men, women, and teenagers, Marcus.
MARCUS PARKS
Thank you.
BEN KISSEL
Teenagers.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And he was on childfree subreddit.
MARCUS PARKS
It's about journalistic integrity.
BEN KISSEL
And you know that's what we're all about.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're right, we're all about it. But he was also a poster on the childfree subreddit.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, I know about that one, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because now they they also have a term that they use called childfree in spirit which means you have a child but you don't want it.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic. Well you know what, a little piece of, to wrap it up-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No but it goes from there then because they put all that shit in there that seems like evidence, right, that he killed the baby on purpose.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The Florida Supreme Court threw it out because they're like oh this is unfair that he has a history of lies and all this kind of shit.
BEN KISSEL
Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And it's like that doesn't mean he killed the baby even though he had done all this research about how long it would take to kill a baby. And he definitely went into his car several times where he would have smelled the baby inside of the car.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And he didn't. He was like I had a cold. He might have had COVID.
BEN KISSEL
Well to wrap it up in a bizarre, romantic way perhaps.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's the biggest tragedy of COVID. Not being able to smell all the decaying bodies in your own home.
BEN KISSEL
He and Lucy should have met.
MARCUS PARKS
Perhaps.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Whoa! What if they hook up now?
BEN KISSEL
Lucy and Justin.
MARCUS PARKS
Like Rose West and Myra Hindley!
BEN KISSEL
Ugh god.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
All right everyone, well thank you so much for listening. We appreciate everyone who's come out to the shows.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Dude.
BEN KISSEL
We had a massive honor of doing The Palladium here in London.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was crazy.
BEN KISSEL
Which was such a dream come true for us and everyone was just awesome and all the shows have been great.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
And so thank you. We feel really just fortunate to be out here and entertaining people around the world.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's so cool. This has been a beautiful couple of weeks, it's been really nice to be out here, see all your faces. And we're not the only ones because now WizBru and Page 7-
BEN KISSEL
No, we're putting others to work now.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
This is the beginning of the beginning of our new life where they work for us.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Check out the Release The Butthole Cut tour. Austin it is November 17th, Dallas November 18th, Washington DC December 6th. Then you got Philly, Brooklyn, Minneapolis, Milwaukee.
BEN KISSEL
I love Milwaukee.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.
BEN KISSEL
Awesome.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Check it out in a city near you.
BEN KISSEL
It's going to be absolutely fantastic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Go to page7.show for tickets.
BEN KISSEL
Don't worry though, Holden will not be showing his butthole unless you request it and offer him $5. We've seen his stream, he'll do anything for $5.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You must consent to his butthole.
BEN KISSEL
All right.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, there's a whole form you gotta sign in triplicate. And the third form goes to the president, so you know everything's fine.
BEN KISSEL
Oh it'll be great, he'll read that right away.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, he just eats it. I got him!
BEN KISSEL
Hail yourselves!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hail Satan.
MARCUS PARKS
Hail Gein.
BEN KISSEL
Megustalations everyone.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hail me. And next week we're coming with some spookies.
BEN KISSEL
Oh yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Big spookies.
BEN KISSEL
Hope everyone's enjoying Halloween season.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, I got a pants full of spookies.
BEN KISSEL
Let's end it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I could smell it.