HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Warning, today's episode involves demons. Even just listening to this episode may involve you getting demons.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because demons apparently are a contagious disease and you need to be very careful when listening to things about demons.
BEN KISSEL
Demons!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because if you are not too careful and if you don't have your rosary close by or inside of you, a demon might follow you home after listening to this broadcast.
BEN KISSEL
Take that rosary out, have a good time. Welcome to Last Podcast on the Left everyone. Ben hanging out with Henry and Marcus.
MARCUS PARKS
Hi.
BEN KISSEL
Today's episode, just in time for the spooky season of Halloween.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demons.
BEN KISSEL
We're talking demons. Specifically we are talking about what took place in a wonderful land, only the most pure land of Gary, Indiana.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh yeah.
BEN KISSEL
We're discussing the Demon House of Gary, Indiana.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I just don't understand because every demonologist is so incredibly scared of the thing that they're supposed to be highly trained against defending themselves. That's what they're supposed to be doing. They're supposed to know demons better than anybody else. And they're all like, 'Demons? It's a bad business to be in.' It's like you're the only... You are doing it!
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No one's asked you, there's no legacy, you didn't go to the Harvard of demon school.
MARCUS PARKS
It's like if the cat daddy was afraid of cats.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Exactly!
BEN KISSEL
Well we just don't know if he is or not. So let's get into it. The Demon House of Gary, Indiana.
MARCUS PARKS
Now when it comes to stories of legitimate hauntings, there's certainly been a dearth of credible accounts in recent years.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Dearth.
MARCUS PARKS
Well one might think that cellphone videos and photos should have given us more proof of the paranormal, proof is still in short supply, partly I think because of my pet electricity theory.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well he has a pet theory about electricity, it's not saying that pets are filled with electricity.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely not. Well they are because they're alive. Hopefully.
MARCUS PARKS
Yes. But anyway, we therefore mostly have to depend on stories just as we always have. And when it comes to stories of possession and hauntings in recent years, the best tale by far comes from the troubled industrial city of Gary, Indiana.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
There has been obviously a number of modern hauntings that we will be covering over the next year or so. But this story really took the imagination of America by storm.
BEN KISSEL
It did.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because this is one of those stories that has what you would call high level authoritative discussion of it, right. Like the idea of cops came and saw the demon and cops were like, 'I don't go in that house.'
BEN KISSEL
Don't go in that house.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Which is also not good. You're police officers, you should enter a home in Gary, Indiana. There's gonna be violence in there.
BEN KISSEL
Well with a warrant.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, anytime. Anytime. Free martial law.
BEN KISSEL
That's kinda one of the problems I think.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But also stuff like there was a child protective services officer who saw some shit, there's a bunch of people that were involved which gives this story an air of legitimacy, it really does. It creeps people out.
BEN KISSEL
Well to push back a little bit on your electricity theory Marcus, I don't think Gary has electricity. So I am not exactly sure if that would play a factor again in the Demon House of Gary, Indiana.
MARCUS PARKS
I'm just talking about in general.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Because I do believe that the reason why we have not had as many ghost sightings in the last 100-150 years because of electricity in the air. The more electricity there is, the more the ghosts get zapped and get all fucked up. I'm being super clinical here.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Super clinical. It's very exact.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, the ghosts get zapped and they get all fucked up, bro.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Guess what, Marcus? You're a demonologist now.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because it is the world of the fanfiction of paranormal.
BEN KISSEL
All right.
MARCUS PARKS
And we're carrying around these big electronic batteries everywhere we go. Less ghosts. That's all I'm saying.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I just believe that the phenomena changes shape according to what we believe is the current, like what we kind of achieve as a godlike hierarchy and now we view science as the full replacement of god which is why we see aliens in sci-fi scenarios vs ghosts.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Sounds like you guys are all Neil-on deGrasse Tyson.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Fuck you. Fuck this shit.
BEN KISSEL
You sound pretty stoned to me.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You got a demon inside of you?
BEN KISSEL
Oh god dang it.
MARCUS PARKS
Well starting in November of 2011, a woman named Latoya Ammons claimed that she, her mother, and her three children were terrorized by a malevolent force that inhabited the one story rental home they shared at 3860 Carolina Street. Famously their tale was told in an extremely sensationalized documentary by Ghost Adventures host Zak Bagans entitled Demon House. But if we're being honest here, the doc is far more about Zak Bagans than it is about the haunting itself.
BEN KISSEL
I'm gonna defend Zak a little bit. My little brother, he truly believes in this stuff and he told me what Zak does is one of the most dangerous things a person can do, truly confronting the devil. Also you say sensationalized. It's the shoes! Doesn't accoutrements, don't they help?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is what I'm saying. Zak Bagans at least was the OG ghost bro.
BEN KISSEL
He's doing it!
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So he hasn't changed. He hasn't changed his black cargo pants.
BEN KISSEL
Nope.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
His one singular black undershirt that he wears everywhere he goes.
BEN KISSEL
Yep.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Black cap. It's because again, it allows him to be like, 'Look, I'm a shadow.'
BEN KISSEL
Exactly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'm the shadow.
BEN KISSEL
He is the Guy Fieri of ghost hunting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
I would say he's more like the Nickelback of ghost hunters but that's just me.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Whoa!
BEN KISSEL
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Buddy, whoa.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Nickelback. Guy Fieri at least puts butts in seats.
MARCUS PARKS
Okay. The Pearl Jam.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
I'll say he's the Pearl Jam because it begat Nickelback, it begat Puddle of Mudd, it begat Staind, it begat all of these horrible fucking bands.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You are correct. It's true. Begat. Once he goes through the begats of grunge, then we know the episode is grinding to a halt.
BEN KISSEL
That's the Marcus bible.
MARCUS PARKS
I'm just gonna go ahead and say I'm not a big fan of the ghost bro school of the paranormal.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
I believe it pulls the movement back.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's so funny Marcus because I watch all this shit 24/7. I watch this stuff to go to sleep. And so I'm so used to it and Marcus never watches it.
MARCUS PARKS
I hate it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So I sent him all this stuff and he was like, 'Ghost Adventures?' And I was like yes, yes, yeah, I watch it, it is adventures with ghosts. And then as he was watching he's just like, 'These men just yell at these ghosts.'
BEN KISSEL
Come at me, ghosts!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And I was like that's their whole thing.
BEN KISSEL
Come at me, ghost!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But Zak, he vibes.
MARCUS PARKS
What are they doing?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He vibes with them.
MARCUS PARKS
It's just a bunch of Rockstar energy drinks on screen, screaming at ghost and pacing around.
BEN KISSEL
This show is a bunch of Rockstar energy drinks.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Kissel is 75% Rockstar energy drink. You're drinking coffee today.
BEN KISSEL
Today I am.
MARCUS PARKS
That's true but I drink espresso and Henry, you drink cold brew. There is a nice balance, it's not just Rockstar.
BEN KISSEL
Can we just get back to Gary, Indiana? Something I never thought I'd say.
MARCUS PARKS
Well that's the thing though, I'll give credit where credit is due, I have no doubt whatsoever that Zak Bagans was indeed sincere with his documentary. And I think he's 100% sincere about the after effects he suffered from making said documentary. I do believe that they believe and I believe that they saw some weird fucking shit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
That's the closest thing a father could come to accepting his son.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I felt almost like my father being like, 'So you do this for a living? All right.'
BEN KISSEL
All right. And you're happy?
MARCUS PARKS
But at the end of the day the real story is the original haunting, the one suffered by the Ammons family.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes, because Marcus doesn't really appreciate the ghost bro school of demonology in ghost hunting, he doesn't.
BEN KISSEL
We've learned.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But the thing is that what you forget is that if we're not there and we have to be in the crystals, nonvaccinated medium world of demonology-
BEN KISSEL
It does bring together a strange woman from Savannah and a weird Trump supporter from Arkansas.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It does create community.
BEN KISSEL
It does.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Just ask Paul Roberts, demonologist, what it's like and what he has to go through in order to help his clientele to escape from demons.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, it's love.
LPOTL
(Paul Roberts audio) "There's many ways to bring a demon into your life. You open up a portal, this portal brings in an entity, a dimensional entity through a portal that may inhabit your home, may inhabit your body, may inhabit your soul."
BEN KISSEL
Oh god dang.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Honestly it gets worse than that.
LPOTL
(Paul Roberts audio) "I received a call from a 19 year old woman from Arkansas. Rebecca called me and she was terrified. She sounded really, really frightened on the telephone. She said that when she falls asleep she would have nightmares and a demon. And she described this demon as looking somewhat hideous, that would actually enter her dreams. And the demon was telling her to commit suicide. And when I was talking to her, the voice was shaking, she was frightened, she was crying. I asked her if she ever played with a Ouija board, tarot cards, and come to find out she played with a Ouija board. And I told her to take that Ouija board and throw it into the river. You can't burn a Ouija board because you'll curse yourself. And what she did was take the Ouija board and she threw it into the river. She never saw it again. She went and got baptized, she blessed her home. And no more than maybe a week later there was a thrill in her voice. She was happy. She wasn't contemplating suicide, she wasn't having any more dreams, and she wasn't being bothered by this demon."
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Now this is what is called demonologist voice.
BEN KISSEL
Wow, interesting. He really saved her.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He really did. Because the thing about demon, demon can be any form, any form demon take, he could be man. Demon could be a box, a hamburger. You don't know.
BEN KISSEL
You don't know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You eat hamburger, you don't understand, you eat demon. Demon can be checkerboard and all of a sudden you playing checkerboard and you now know that the man next to you, he demon as well. He also demon.
BEN KISSEL
He's also demon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You playing demon. So you never, never not be scared.
BEN KISSEL
Never not be scared. Interesting he mentioned not to burn the Ouija board. When I was in high school we did burn our Ouija board. Nothing bad happened.
MARCUS PARKS
No, it didn't.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You got clots.
BEN KISSEL
I did get blood clots but that was three years later, that was after major weight loss. And then also I rolled down a hill for fun.
MARCUS PARKS
And my favorite demonologist is a guy on YouTube that always had the camera right above the bridge of his nose, you only saw his eyes, and you'd watch the video and he'd just go, 'Pornography demons come out. Come out, pornography demons. Come out, pornography demons. Pornography demons come out.' And it's that for six minutes.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my goodness. That's one hell of a JOI.
MARCUS PARKS
What's a JOI?
BEN KISSEL
Jerk off instruction.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Jerk off instruction.
BEN KISSEL
That's where they tell you what to do.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They tell you what to do, it's actually kind of nice to have somebody else take the wheel.
BEN KISSEL
And they give you a countdown at the end so you kind of can time it out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, yeah. And I was just like you know what? I just come at the top of it. Be like all right, I'm done. Once it starts the countdown because now I know she's checked out.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
No, you gotta just go to the end there.
MARCUS PARKS
Well back to the house in Gary, Indiana. The house itself is fairly nondescript, the sort of simple one story home with an enclosed porch that one might see on any of the streets in the more impoverished sections of Gary, Indiana which are numerous. The structure was built in 1926 and supposedly, according to the documentary, five murders occurred in this one home prior to the residency of the Ammons family. Although according to a report I ordered from diedinhouse.com, nobody has ever officially died at 3860 Carolina Street. I don't know where the hell he got that number.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well I just feel like maybe these murders were off the record.
BEN KISSEL
Off the record, unofficial deaths. Was it one incident or five different incidents?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It could have been just one incident. All it takes is a grenade to kill a family.
BEN KISSEL
Sure.
MARCUS PARKS
He just said five, five murders. And then it sort of moved on from there pretty quickly.
BEN KISSEL
Well that's a big move on but okay.
MARCUS PARKS
But as far as the supernatural history of the house goes, the problems for the Ammons family began in December of 2011 when swarms of large black flies infested the screened-in porch of their home. Supposedly no matter how many flies the family killed, more would come to replace them. And this is despite the cold winter weather that should have kept away even the first swarm away, even much less replacement swarms.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well we only got fly in our house because the family decided to let me be totally in control of a rabbit that was inside of a wire cage in my bedroom.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And it was terrible what I did.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, you killed that rabbit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I didn't kill it specifically, it just died of neglect and then also the shit itself created a demon- like atmosphere.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. I had Rusty the rabbit, I had a rabbit as well that died from pure and utter neglect. We shouldn't have them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No.
BEN KISSEL
It was a life lesson though.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Never give a child a little pet without someone looking after it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
It was actually quite a sad scene in the Benjamin Kissel story. I was about 11 and it went to the cage to feed it for the first time in a while and it had died. And then I brought it into the tub and I said it's okay Rusty, you're gonna make it Rusty.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Ugh. Jesus Christ.
BEN KISSEL
But indeed it had frozen to death at that time.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is the scariest episode so far that we've ever done.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. I once killed a turtle, not through neglect, I cared too much. I thought it wanted cheese and I fed it too much cheese and it ate a lot of cheese and the turtle didn't know that it shouldn't eat cheese, it just knew that it liked cheese. And then the turtle died from too much cheese.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep. It's like what I do with the bit about how if you feed a penguin linguine it fucking traps up its guts and fucking kills it.
BEN KISSEL
Anyway, back to the flies.
MARCUS PARKS
Now flies were a big part of the story of the most infamous haunted house in american history, The Amityville Horror.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
And one of the more memorable scenes from the movie adaptation involved the priest being swarmed with black flies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Get out. Get out.
BEN KISSEL
Not the flies! Not the flies!
MARCUS PARKS
That's the bees.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He tried.
BEN KISSEL
I changed it up.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's the remix.
BEN KISSEL
Remix.
MARCUS PARKS
Its a remix. But from the demonologist's perspective, the appearance of these insects are also a sign of Beelzebub, the so-called Lord of the flies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(metal guitar riff)
BEN KISSEL
You know what? I've made an official decision, Ben Kissel decision. If the devil did have any control over insects, it would be mosquitoes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Of course.
BEN KISSEL
The berengers of doom.
MARCUS PARKS
Harbingers.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, whatever. What's a berenger?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I have no fucking clue, dude.
BEN KISSEL
Tom Berenger?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, Tom Berenger.
BEN KISSEL
Tom Harbinger of doom!
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, Behringer is a brand of microphone.
BEN KISSEL
Oh, that's what I'm looking at.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Got it.
MARCUS PARKS
And these swarms of flies, they have long been a part of reported demon infestations even before The Amityville Horror. Now after the flies made their first appearance, the Ammons family began experiencing classic poltergeist activity, the sort of slow burn that we see over and over again when people encounter supposed demonic or intelligent hauntings.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's because the demons are taking hold.
BEN KISSEL
No!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Or they're all learning how to lie together as a family.
BEN KISSEL
That could be interesting.
MARCUS PARKS
And to that point it's important to delineate between the sorts of hauntings people experience when it comes to poltergeists. See a poltergeist as we've said many times before, that's what's known as an intelligent haunting. While there may not be a specific goal in mind when it comes to the entity behind the disturbance-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
En-tit-y. Remember please.
BEN KISSEL
En-tit-y.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
En-tit-y.
MARCUS PARKS
That guy, that demonologist, the way he said entity, it made me question whether the word entity existed.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demon come anywhere, demon can be cornflakes.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're having interesting breakfast, you think oh angel must be watching over me, beautiful day, wonderful time, having a smoothie.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Next thing you know, smoothie is demons.
BEN KISSEL
Smoothie is demon. Interesting.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, the entity, they might have a specific goal in mind like solve my murder or tell my wife I love her, whatever.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And like stop telling me what to do! I'm up to here with your fucking micromanaging, poltergeist!
BEN KISSEL
You better listen to that en-tit-y.
MARCUS PARKS
Well there is certainly an intent to that and it could be, to put it mildly, bothersome. Other hauntings such as ghostly women walking down staircases night after night at the stroke of three, those are residual hauntings and they are from our scant understanding repeating visual or auditory imprints left on the physical world.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is what we think. Or is all of this an example of as we see especially with the Zak Bagans group going into this environment, do the actual ghost hunters themselves with their projections of what they want to see in a home accidentally create a series of tulpas?
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely, completely and utterly possible. When you're old you die and oftentimes we say 3AM is the witching hour. Is it because that's when elderly people get up to go to the bathroom?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's when I get up.
BEN KISSEL
And how many of them died doing that? Much like RIP Mr. Bob Saget.
MARCUS PARKS
Interesting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Interesting.
BEN KISSEL
It's a theory.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I like it. So you're saying that hauntings come from the prostate. That's what this is about is prostate issues.
BEN KISSEL
Oh that would be horrible, that's purgatory, just having to pee.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's our reality in fucking 30 years.
BEN KISSEL
Dang it.
MARCUS PARKS
But even in the world of intelligent hauntings there are many different perspectives as far as what they might be. Some think that the entity or entities behind intelligent hauntings are the disturbed spirits of those who have departed from the living world but do not know that they're dead, ie the scenario in the movie Poltergeist.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They moved the gravestones but they didn't move the bodies!
BEN KISSEL
Which is really so stupid.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's cool though.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
I know but you didn't move the fucking bodies?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
What are they gonna do with all these bodies?
BEN KISSEL
Oh lord.
MARCUS PARKS
Happens all the time. I mean Europe, that's all of Europe. All of Europe is just moving the headstones but not moving the bodies. If you go on a ghost tour in Europe they're like yep, that road is just a bunch of bodies paved over and that road is just a bunch of bodies paved over. Yeah, we built our state house on a bunch of dead bodies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You see we had the good sense in America to kill the millions of people that were living here and then throw them into the trash.
BEN KISSEL
There you go. That's great, Henry.
MARCUS PARKS
But when it comes to the Ammons case, most everyone involved believed that the disturbance was decidedly demonic in nature. In this situation the haunting was caused by a Judeo- Christian demon, usually one of the demons mentioned in The Lesser Key of Solomon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And they always have a very specific name, a series of duties. Because to them, which I also love is that... I was watching this one documentary that's called Mysteries of Angels and Demons and I like how they talk about because it's the science behind angels and demons.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, what's that science all about?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is all about making it up as you go.
BEN KISSEL
Great.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because one of my favorite is a pastor who was just like, 'As people say witchcraft, it has rituals, there's rituals and it's disgusting, it's infernal.'
BEN KISSEL
As opposed to the Catholic Church.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, what we called, and this is real, he says what we have is called spiritual exercises that we do that are yes, a certain amount, but you have to go through a step. You have a grimoire which we covered when we did Anneliese Michel this year, you basically have a spell book that you read out specific names of demons to try to harness them.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because that's the only way. To them, that's how you make it legit.
BEN KISSEL
Sounds like you got rituals.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Very much so. Oftentimes though, from the studies we've done concerning supposed demon hauntings, it's rarely claimed that one demon is responsible.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, man. Nah, dude. It's gotta be a bunch.
BEN KISSEL
Demons have a lot of friends.
MARCUS PARKS
A legion of demons is usually involved.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa.
MARCUS PARKS
And they're all working in concert to make the lives of one family miserable for reasons unknown.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's because they're drug people. That's what they say.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's they're drug people and a lot of times it's because they told them they need psychological medication and they don't because they say that what it is is that your sadness just makes you vulnerable to demons.
BEN KISSEL
Oh intriguing indeed. It does seem like a really fun thing to do to gang stalk a family as a demon with other demon buddies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, that's awesome. I played a demon, I remember. It was a blast.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You just go and you and all your cronies get to just hassle just one low income family.
BEN KISSEL
I mean many times you were just a urinal.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. That was the bit on the show.
BEN KISSEL
Yes indeed.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, how many times did you act as a urinal on that show?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Probably five times. And then you just get used to it. You just don't really care anymore, it just becomes apart of your life and you just keep rolling on.
BEN KISSEL
And those were the best days of my life.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I'll always remember my youth.
MARCUS PARKS
Didn't you say that they would allow you to be pissed on but they wouldn't allow it to be yellow?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It couldn't be yellow, yes. It could be liquid, it had to be clear. But you could piss in my eyes, you can piss in my mouth. I drank all that piss. Like he literally pissed directly to my mouth and I gargled it. And then we had to cut the whole thing where they shit in my mouth because they couldn't do that. But it was awesome.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS
Well in the case of the Ammons house, it was postulated that the trouble came from up to 200 demons.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's the ultimate demons! It's the entire NFL draft of demons.
BEN KISSEL
It is. Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
Concerning widespread misery though, Zak Bagans halfheartedly suggested in his documentary that perhaps all of the horrible things that have befallen Gary, Indiana over the last few decades have come from the so-called portal to hell that supposedly existed over this one house on Carolina Street.
BEN KISSEL
You're gonna wanna move then. I actually think there there is a town, I believe it's in Pennsylvania, that is currently still on fire. Correct?
MARCUS PARKS
It's on fire, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. So that seems like a portal to hell to me.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I think the portal to hell might be stuff like that's bad capitalism and systemic racism. But I don't know, maybe I'm incorrect.
BEN KISSEL
Portal to hell.
MARCUS PARKS
Now that is a massive stretch to say the least. But after hearing the Ammons family story as well as the testimonies of some of the people who shared these experiences before the fucking Bagans crew barged into the house with all that fucking Red Bull energy, I do believe that this story is compelling. Maybe not demonic but compelling nonetheless. Now after the flies, Latoya and her mother who also lived at the house on Carolina Street, they started hearing strange noises each night when the clock struck midnight. They heard creaking doors and loud footsteps emanating from the basement.
BEN KISSEL
Cool.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
At least the loud footsteps were corroborated by many witnesses. That seemed to come up individually from people who came in and out of the house afterwards and before, saying oh we used to have this problem with phantom footsteps.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Which is in and of itself very creepy.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Well thinking that a breeze was possibly causing the door to sway, Latoya locked it. But the creaking sound persisted. And soon Latoya's mother began seeing the shadowy figure of a man pacing around the living room. While no man was found the apparition allegedly left behind large wet boot prints.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Cool.
BEN KISSEL
Oh my.
MARCUS PARKS
Then came the dogs.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Oh no.
BEN KISSEL
I don't like that.
MARCUS PARKS
Even though there were no dogs nearby, the family heard barking coming from inside the house and an investigator who later examined the basement claimed to have heard a dog barking and growling beneath the floorboards.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's the kind of stuff that I found compelling about the documentary and other footage I saw is shit like that.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Where one person would say something very specific about dog barking and hearing dogs barking and then that one dude came in there and the first thing he said was like is that a dog barking? Which is interesting when that all lines up.
BEN KISSEL
Folks, are we talking demon dogs here? Do we have a demon dog? Is that what's happening?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I feel like the dog noises are being used to unsettle people because especially at the time, if you do believe that certain parts of the function of the phenomena are reflecting back on things that you find particularly scary, what would be really scary in Gary, Indiana besides that's the sound of multiple cop dogs? Right?
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, I suppose so.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And that type of thing reverberates back of what's scary to you.
BEN KISSEL
Okay, all dogs do go to heaven. I've seen the movie, I'm not sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Some dogs go to heaven.
BEN KISSEL
I don't know if dogs do go to hell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Some dogs go to hell.
BEN KISSEL
And I believe you do have to be in hell to be a demon.
MARCUS PARKS
Now it is important to note that Latoya Ammons was heavily religious and Catholic at that, meaning she was primed and ready to believe that a demon was behind all of her troubles. What we will say however is that many of the things that happened to the Ammons family have been happening in poltergeist cases and in supposed possession cases for centuries, meaning that the case does deserve serious investigation even though serious investigation of the paranormal still seems to be just out of our grasp. It's almost there, I can feel it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well because you just ask the Newkirks. The Newkirks do the closest thing I've seen to a truly serious ghost investigation and people say it's boring because unfortunately it does move slow and a lot of times when you experience the paranormal, it's very personal.
BEN KISSEL
Dog Whisperer meets Ghost Hunters: Demon Dogs Edition.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Interesting.
BEN KISSEL
Fascinating.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Save it for the next time we pitching something with the head of Shudder. We're talking to the head of Shudder and he completely blew it!
BEN KISSEL
I pitched him an idea.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He fucking blew it. He said I'm gonna pitch you a movie and he fucked it up.
BEN KISSEL
I pitched more of a thriller.
MARCUS PARKS
Not a horror movie.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No!
BEN KISSEL
No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And he literally said that as he was looking at his phone. He started looking at his phone.
BEN KISSEL
Pitched the wrong genre.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I watched him turn into a pitch movie. He was like I got a pitch for you. He was like all right. Because he was totally engaged and as soon as he started pitching, guy started looking at his phone. I was like goddamn it!
MARCUS PARKS
Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He just immediately went into exec mode.
BEN KISSEL
And that's the true horror, isn't it?
MARCUS PARKS
How does the thriller end?
BEN KISSEL
It's actually quite a cute idea. It's about a Make-A-Wish kid who wishes that the baseball player would throw the game.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah and then it turns into Uncut Gems. It's that movie where what's his name, Johnny Knoxville pretended to be mentally handicapped to get into the games.
BEN KISSEL
And then the Make-A-Wish kid becomes this entity and the mafia is like who is this guy? Who is this guy? But it turns out it's a Make-A-Wish kid so it's Saw meets some kind of other movie.
MARCUS PARKS
It's the worst fucking idea I've ever heard in my life.
BEN KISSEL
I think it's a fantastic idea and I'm gonna make it. I just made it. It's starring Alec Baldwin.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yay!
MARCUS PARKS
And what's it called?
BEN KISSEL
What's it called? It's called... What's the opposite of a wish?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Fuck. This is the problem, man. This is the problem. I said take the stage, it was like the spotlight's on you, man.
BEN KISSEL
I nailed it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, yeah. Well concerning the patterns of poltergeist activity, after the simple stuff was out of the way Latoya's daughter allegedly became a target of the entity haunting the house. As usual, the daughter was 12 years old. She was pubescent and she was going through the traumatic experience of the loss of a loved one. To wit, on the night of the first sign of alleged possession the family was mourning the loss of that loved one. And at around 2AM on March 10, 2012, a friend staying at the Ammons' house woke up to find Latoya's daughter unconscious and levitating above the bed.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is a very classic scenario. The entire family was in turmoil as it was. I think that the mom might be dealing with some psychological difficulties as well.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And everybody kind of like... Again, is it groupthink or is it a demon?
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
According to the Ammons family, they all witnessed the phenomenon when the friend screamed and supposedly they prayed over the levitating girl until she finally woke up. When she did she had no idea why everyone was so worried but her sleepover friend never returned to the house.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, I would go back.
BEN KISSEL
I think that's kind of fun. Why not go back? It's kind of cool.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's all about if you're shtupping her or not.
BEN KISSEL
It's something to do anyway.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
If you're shtupping her then you gotta hang out for a while.
BEN KISSEL
It was a sleepover friend.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
If your new girlfriend gets possessed by a demon, you kind of have to hang out for a bit. It's like if they turned out getting really sick.
BEN KISSEL
No, no, you can go. If they've been possessed by a demon, if you've been dating for a month, you can just go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Wow, interesting.
BEN KISSEL
If you're married-
MARCUS PARKS
I'm with Ben on this one, I think you can just go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
At a month? What's the cut off, 3 months?
BEN KISSEL
Married. Honestly even if you're engaged, they're possessed by a demon, you can go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Wow.
BEN KISSEL
But you signed that devil's contract and then you have to stay with them.
MARCUS PARKS
If you're talking about living together, then I think you gotta stay. But any time before that, you can just head, you can just go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Especially if you signed a lease.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Any document that's been signed, you gotta stay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah but I think even if you're not living together, if you're talking about living together then yeah, you gotta stick around. You can't just say I'm out of here.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay. He's the moral barometer of the show.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Well after that Latoya's other two children, boys aged 7 and 9, they also became targets for the supposed entity. In one incident one of the boys was thrown out of a room by an invisible force and he complained that something was pulling at his limbs and genitals.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's the ghost of Michael Jackson.
BEN KISSEL
I know, insert your Michael Jackson joke there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He's from Gary, Indiana.
MARCUS PARKS
That's the one we get, we get it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's Gary, Indiana!
MARCUS PARKS
It was pretty good. You know what? If you were gonna put one anywhere that was a pretty good place for it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hee-hee.
BEN KISSEL
I mean I was gonna let our audience think it and then they can have the embarrassing shame of having a horrible joke that they want to say and then they do say it and then everyone says good job.
MARCUS PARKS
Well what's interesting and unusual about this story though is that demonic presences usually focus on one person when it comes to possession, although everyone in the house experiences something. With the Ammons family however, all three kids were fair game for temporary spiritual invasions. Fairly often the eyes of the two little boys would allegedly become extremely bloodshot. When that happened, the boys would describe what it felt like to be murdered or they'd locked themselves in closets to talk to invisible entities or they'd say they were being choked to death by something they couldn't see.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is why I have chihuahuas.
BEN KISSEL
This is scary, yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
As far as the daughter went, her head was allegedly smashed against her bed's headboard hard enough to require stitches. Although another version of that story is that the headboard simply fell, albeit with great force.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do you remember when the sign hit you in the head?
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah but that was my fault.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demons. Because the demon, he enter your home and you think oh maybe I have bought this record, I have went across town to Manchester London and I went and I got myself a record from the store and I said oh how rare, how incredible it is for me to have. And then you show up, open up record, put it on player and you expect to have good time with you and your girlfriend. Turned out a demon.
BEN KISSEL
It's a demon, fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS
But after putting up with a fair amount of these disturbances, Latoya Ammons reached out to two local clairvoyants who quickly surmised the house was inhabited by over 200 demons.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
These fucking bitches were ready to go because they're all the women, I know these ladies from my mom's time spent working in a 12 step store.
BEN KISSEL
12 step store? That's a tiny store.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
If you throw a chair, you'll hit like four- That's funny. That's really funny stuff. And I'm just so glad you derailed me for it.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Anyway, continue on.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's over now.
BEN KISSEL
All right, 200 demons, 2 clairvoyants. Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
At the insistence of those clairvoyants, who were never named by the way, Latoya built a Christian altar in her basement to combat the demonic presence because all signs were pointing towards the basement being the source of the hauntings.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And the basement was genuinely creepy.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But I also feel like this is kind of the thing we saw with the Betty Andreasson affair and certain things, when you are may be experiencing something that is weird, right, but you also have sort of a very specific religious outlook. There's something about kind of in a way encouraging the behavior of the phenomenon, if it is indeed real, by doing shit like this where you set up a Christian altar and basically you tell the thing that it's a demon and then it starts to behave as such.
BEN KISSEL
This is why you got to get a one story house, Spanish style, no basement, no attic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're right, this is all about ranch style homes.
BEN KISSEL
It really is.
MARCUS PARKS
Dressed all in white with sheets wrapped around their heads, Latoya and her mother covered an end table with a white cloth and placed a statue of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph next to a bible open to Psalm 91.
BEN KISSEL
Jesus married Joseph?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He's great today. He's fucking great today.
MARCUS PARKS
He's great, he's great.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Look at him, he's loving it.
BEN KISSEL
I'm not. I'm ruining the show.
MARCUS PARKS
I'm loving it, I'm loving it. Yeah. Psalm 91, it's basically a bunch of well meaning and comforting passages about Jesus generally protecting his followers from this, that, and the other.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, why did he make harelips though?
BEN KISSEL
Well who cares? Everyone's beautiful in their own right.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Why'd he make all this other fucking shit? Why'd he make kids with backwards fucking arms and shit? He didn't protect everybody. He only protects some people.
BEN KISSEL
You're not understanding at all what it means.
MARCUS PARKS
This is about protecting after, this is about protection from the horrible things on earth like birds. I think it mentions birds.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Caw!
MARCUS PARKS
Jesus will protect you from birds.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey man. All you need is an umbrella.
BEN KISSEL
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
Now supposedly the altar temporarily protected the family for three days. But after the third day the statue was thrown across the basement by the demonic force and the hauntings quickly restarted just as strong as ever.
BEN KISSEL
No!
MARCUS PARKS
So after the clairvoyants didn't pan out, Ammons, to her credit, reached out to her family's pediatrician. After visiting the home though he immediately called out the situation as delusional. There's nothing going on here!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. He's like you're all fucked up, everything's fucked up, everybody's sad and upset and none of it is real.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
At this point though, one of the boys cursed the pediatrician out using a demonic voice. Then the boy was lifted and thrown into a wall when no one else was nearby supposedly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This did happen in front of their doctor.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It happened in front of the doctor but then he's still like looking at it from a doctor's perspective as he should, he was like well maybe they're having a seizure. Everybody's freaking out.
MARCUS PARKS
And both boys then passed out. So the pediatrician had his office contact the authorities and the authorities surprisingly overreacted by sending multiple ambulances and eight police officers. This of course was when the Department of Child Services became involved. See a neighbor had already reported Ammons to the DCS because she believed that the kids were merely performing for their mother and were acting out to calm Latoya's own delusions stemming from untreated mental illness. That being said though, it was a DCS worker who witnessed the most incredible display of paranormal activity out of this entire ordeal and it happened not in the Ammons home but at the hospital after the pediatrician called emergency services.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is why we're doing the episode and why people are interested in the case.
BEN KISSEL
Okay. It gives it some legitimacy.
MARCUS PARKS
The caseworker, Valerie Washington, brought the two boys into an examination room with the children's grandmother, away from the eyes of their mother Latoya. The 7 year old started growling at his 9 year old brother, saying that he planned to kill him and that it was quote "time to die".
BEN KISSEL
Uh oh.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I mean kids fight.
BEN KISSEL
I guess. That's a little extreme.
MARCUS PARKS
Then his eyes rolled back and he bared his teeth at DCS staff which prompted the other boy to headbutt his brother in the stomach. It took five members of the hospital staff to hold down the 7 year old. But the creepiest part came when the grandmother attempted to pray. Supposedly, and this was witnessed by multiple people, when the grandmother tried grabbing the boy's hands the child grinned, glided across the floor, and climbed up a wall backwards.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hee-hee.
BEN KISSEL
No! Get out of here!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah man.
BEN KISSEL
Stop it all! I don't like what's happening.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I think he is inhabited by Michael Jackson.
BEN KISSEL
I don't know about all of that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I finally get to be a boy again.
BEN KISSEL
Finally. I don't think he really enjoyed being a child, I think that's part of the trauma that he experienced as well. But wow. So this all happened in a hospital.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, this happened in a hospital. Multiple people said they saw it happen. They saw a child walk backwards up a wall by himself, no one around him.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
All right.
MARCUS PARKS
When I say he glided across the floor, it's like the scene in Poltergeist where they take the little girl and she glides across the kitchen. It's like that.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. He looked at the fucking nurse and went (hums Bad by Michael Jackson).
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS
Fantastic. Just still trying it again and again and again. Hoping that maybe you can hit it, one of the angles might get it.
BEN KISSEL
One more time. Little shoe horn in there. Nice. That's great humor, good stuff.
MARCUS PARKS
By the way, you already had your one. And then you took four more.
BEN KISSEL
He's got four now, it's been four.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This is my life, man. Y'all are trapped in here with me.
BEN KISSEL
I know. We know, we're aware. I'd rather be with this kid in the hospital.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(hums Bad by Michael Jackson)
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
The staff suitably freaked out. They went and got a doctor who asked the boy to do it again.
BEN KISSEL
What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do it again!
BEN KISSEL
Do it again?
MARCUS PARKS
Do it again, show me.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah because now they're like all right, fucking do it again. This is literally ghost hunting at its purest.
BEN KISSEL
Do it again. That's not what I would request but okay.
MARCUS PARKS
However the boy not only couldn't repeat the incident but he had no memory that anything strange had happened at all.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And I do believe if you ask a kid, if he can do that kind of parkour like that, he'd be like yeah of course, mister! He'd just do it again because it'd be cool as fuck.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. I just don't think he... Anyway, interesting indeed.
MARCUS PARKS
Now whether or not caseworker Valerie Washington believed in demonic possession or not is irrelevant because the day after the wall climbing incident, an emergency appeal was filed to have the children taken away from Latoya Ammons. Partly Latoya's children were taken away because this was not the first time she had been accused of neglectful parenting. Years earlier in 2009 Ammons was reported because her kids weren't going to school and it was obvious that all three kids were going through some kind of emotional distress.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The house was all messed up. Things were really not well on the inside of the house. But again is it a chicken and the egg scenario that these things tend to happen in tense home situations?
BEN KISSEL
Sure.
MARCUS PARKS
So the kids were sent to group homes for psychiatric evaluations. Meanwhile the chaplain at the hospital where the wall climbing incident had occurred, he decided along with Latoya to reach out to a priest named Father Michael Maginot concerning possible options for exorcism. Which I think tells you a lot about Latoya's state of mind is that her kids get taken away and her first thought is call the priest.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah because now she has decided that this is real.
MARCUS PARKS
Yes, she has.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And again I feel there is a, how do you put it? Like a practical edge to the performative ritual of exorcism. Maybe if you can convince somebody like all right, you think this is real. Let's now walk this path and try to fix you in a way that corresponds to your beliefs.
BEN KISSEL
Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because sometimes it does snap people out of it. A lot of times it just makes it worse.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Now Father Maginot immediately found this to be a bizarre request because most priests never experience credible claims of demon possession. Although as we've said, exorcisms have been on a rapid rise over the last few decades.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But you know it's exciting.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, of course.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because most of the time it's just boring ass funerals.
BEN KISSEL
Oh sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You gotta do your fucking mass. The idea of someone showing up being like I need an exorcism, that's a fucking huge day for a priest.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. They are the only ones that can handle this assignment.
MARCUS PARKS
So while Father Maginot didn't agree to an exorcism right away, he did agree to meet with the family. And two days after Latoya's children were taken away she met with Father Maginot at her allegedly haunted house. Now Maginot figured that there was probably some sort of natural affliction going on here which isn't the worst assumption considering how many people have come away from that place with serious physical ailments that point more towards extreme toxicity in the environment instead of demonic infestation.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's so funny that you said the word serious physical ailments and I swear to god Kissel's stomach just made a noise that sounds like there is a man inside of him. It sounds like there's a haunted butler.
BEN KISSEL
Demon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Literally there is a physical tiny man that is trapped in his guts.
BEN KISSEL
Not the flies!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I just eurgh! Tim Allen's in there.
BEN KISSEL
Oh interesting, Home Improvement.
MARCUS PARKS
Well for a good example of those serious physical ailments in people who have visited the place, the parapsychologist from the Zak Bagans documentary, the guy who came in with the fun little toys, he came away from the visit with serious organ failure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Dude.
BEN KISSEL
Is there a gas leak in the house?
MARCUS PARKS
That's what I'm saying!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're gonna get into it.
MARCUS PARKS
And this dude, it's near the end of the documentary, he's in the hospital, his organs are shutting down.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They said that each one shut down. Normally they say when organs shut down they do one at a time but there seemed to be some kind of strike. There was a collective strike of labor.
BEN KISSEL
Strike. Yeah, they unionized. Out of all the EVPs and all the electronic equipment he brought, did anyone bring a carbon monoxide tester?
MARCUS PARKS
Man, that's what we'll get into. But this guy is sitting there, his organs are shutting down, and he's got a smile on his face. He is super jazzed because he's like its true!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
A demon attacked me! It's true. It's like meeting Chandler Bing. And you just say like say what you say on the show, say the thing where you go like Monica!
BEN KISSEL
Isn't that nice?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's just so nice to be there and just know a demon touched me.
BEN KISSEL
Well Friends was just great because even if you were lonely, you always had friends.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They would never have spoken to you.
BEN KISSEL
No, I know. It really doesn't hold up.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Honestly, Kissel's stuff, his whole body is making... He sounds like a haunted mansion.
MARCUS PARKS
He's just hungry. The man's hungry.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I don't know what that is. I think I heard a chain noise come out of him.
BEN KISSEL
Folks, I had too much chili, I actually had too much chili this week.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
But I haven't forgotten anything. So I think Alex Jones was lying about that too. We could take a break.
MARCUS PARKS
He did say in our text chain 'my butt's been crazy lately, ever since we got back from the UK my butt's been crazy'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Crazy. We need to get a belly mic.
BEN KISSEL
I don't want a belly mic.
MARCUS PARKS
But concerning Maginot's read on the situation, he decided after a four hour conversation that the family was indeed being tormented by malevolent spirits.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa.
MARCUS PARKS
But for him the clincher was nothing more complicated than a flickering light. See he claimed that when he was conducting the interview with Latoya and her mother a flickering light in the bathroom emitted a continuous noise.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey, how you doing? Hey. Hey, how you doing?
BEN KISSEL
Oh I love that Italian lightbulb.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey, what are you guys doing?
MARCUS PARKS
But when Maginot acknowledged the light and told it to cut it out, the flickering stopped.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Sorry about that.
BEN KISSEL
The old Dave Coulier.
MARCUS PARKS
Now when the Maginot- Now when Father- I was about to say when the Maginot line, that's not right.
BEN KISSEL
Actually, I might have to use the restroom.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're keeping this in.
BEN KISSEL
No, we're not. No, we're not keeping that in.
MARCUS PARKS
Ad break goes here. Okay, so we're back from the break. Has the haunted stomach righted itself?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I think we're allowed now because I did hear like a thank you and then a flush.
BEN KISSEL
Uh huh, everything's fine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So you sent him back to the sewer?
BEN KISSEL
God forbid I eat chili. It's a little too much for my fragile system.
MARCUS PARKS
Now when Father Maginot contacted his local bishop to request permission for an exorcism, the request was denied because from what I can tell about Catholic exorcisms, they almost never get approved on the first try.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, you gotta really want it. It's like a FOIA.
MARCUS PARKS
Instead the bishop pretty much blew off the request and halfheartedly told Maginot to just google it. Google the minor rite.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Google it.
BEN KISSEL
Google it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Google it.
MARCUS PARKS
Google the minor rite, see if you can find something that doesn't need church approval and see if maybe that works.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I went to the internet and I typed into google, right, but then I look at google and does not spell like it should be and then all of a sudden I realized it not google at all, it is demon.
BEN KISSEL
It is indeed a demon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I been typing into demon this whole time. And demon told me how to encourage it instead of how to get rid of it.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. This is a lazy person. Google it? Come on.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, google it. And so after googling it, Maginot held a crucifix up to Latoya's head and said a minor rite of exorcism. This only caused convulsions. But Maginot considered this a victory because he said along with the flickering light, the convulsions meant that the spirits were afraid of him.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
See?
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But they didn't leave.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But they were now satisfactorily afraid of him.
BEN KISSEL
Father Michael, scary dude.
MARCUS PARKS
And so before he left he blessed each room of the house with holy water while reading passages from the bible, although this was not enough to keep Ammons and her mother from fleeing the house to stay with relatives in Indianapolis.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Gary's the only place that makes Indianapolis look like a refuge.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
MARCUS PARKS
Meanwhile the kids were being psychologically evaluated at their respective group homes. The youngest it was said acted possessed when he was challenged, redirected, or faced with questions he didn't want to answer. Otherwise he was totally normal just so long as he wasn't talking about demons or hauntings which led the psychologist to believe that there was nothing psychologically abnormal about the child.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, obviously the kid was on some level, you know nowadays, you'd look at it and be like well he's overreacting to this whole topic. This whole topic is doing something. I'm not saying demonic but it's psychological, like he's learned to behave this way.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Could be demonic.
MARCUS PARKS
Likewise, the person who interviewed the other two kids came upon the same conclusion, adding that the daughter was probably being influenced by her mother's paranormal superstitions and extreme religious beliefs. Remember kids always want to please. That's what they want more than anything.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Of course. But also if you do believe it kind of holds that with demons, demonologists say that demons attach themselves to specific people and places. So maybe if you move away from the portal of hell, it doesn't work anymore, you lose the demon wifi signal and now you're out there but you gotta act like it.
BEN KISSEL
Right. But then who wants to move away from the portal to hell?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I mean tell me about it.
BEN KISSEL
Come on now.
MARCUS PARKS
But while the psychiatric officials assigned to the case were mostly blaming the mother for these strange events, the DCS worker who allegedly saw the Ammons child walk backwards up the wall returned to the house with three police officers to check on the house's livability. Now included in that cohort was a Gary police captain named Charles Austin who was very much a believer in the paranormal. Honestly I'm gonna say this is not a quality that I personally want in a high ranking law enforcement official. Because Charles Austin came to staunchly believe in the demonic and specifically the satanic angle of this case.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, it's one of those where I... But again it's also the thing that quote unquote "gives this legitimacy" because the authority figure comes in.
MARCUS PARKS
I think it de-legitimizes the cop.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. Yes.
BEN KISSEL
Which legitimizes the haunting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The haunting.
MARCUS PARKS
Well when cops start talking about satanic cults and satanic worship, it's obvious they're a very dangerous human being. However concerning supposed satanic rituals, I can see how someone who's already primed to believe in this sort of thing might be persuaded by the house on Carolina Street, particularly considering what they found in the basement.
BEN KISSEL
Uh oh.
MARCUS PARKS
See the basement of the home was totally paved over except for one small area under the stairs, that was nothing more than loose dirt.
BEN KISSEL
Whoa.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's where Marcus would be.
BEN KISSEL
Ooh, that is where he would love to sleep.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's Marcus' room.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, that's his bed. What happened? What's down there?
MARCUS PARKS
Well Father Maginot who'd also come along, he began insisting hey, there could be a body buried there.
BEN KISSEL
There could be a body, that's what I'm thinking.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And all the cops were like yay! Yay!
BEN KISSEL
We got a detective, We got a priest, and they walk into a haunted house. Finish the joke.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And they all have sex with each other and all the children watch.
BEN KISSEL
Interesting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hee-hee.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS
And he kept sitting back there and he kept saying hey, you should dig up that thing, you should dig up that thing.
BEN KISSEL
Dig it up, why not?
MARCUS PARKS
You should dig it up, there's probably a body in there, man. Dig it up, dig that shit up.
BEN KISSEL
Dig it up!
MARCUS PARKS
And finally the officers complied.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
What else are we gonna do?
BEN KISSEL
Dig it up!
MARCUS PARKS
No body was found. But they did find some mysterious and appropriately creepy items. They found a single woman's press on nail, a pair of women's underwear-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Nice.
MARCUS PARKS
Two children's socks with the ankles cut off-
BEN KISSEL
Weird.
MARCUS PARKS
A candle, a comb, and a heavy metal bar.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Okay.
BEN KISSEL
All right.
MARCUS PARKS
Of course Father Maginot immediately jumped to the conclusion that one of the previous tenants of the house had been a necromancer who was performing rituals to communicate with and raise the dead.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Absolutely.
BEN KISSEL
I mean that's the only logical conclusion.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
A necromancer is like, how do you say? He hosts a party, right? And he go, he has many different hors d'oeuvres, they're hors d'oeuvres that you get and it's like a little spinach pie. You see the spinach pie and the demon he come, it turned out that you bought order of a demon. It is demon and necromancer he serve demon.
BEN KISSEL
He is a demon.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. And Captain Austin immediately agreed, adding that the house was a straight up portal to hell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep, that's it. Done. Case solved.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
MARCUS PARKS
But on the other hand, when pictures were taken and audio recordings were made during that search, ghostly silhouettes and weird cloudy marks populated the pictures. And the recording captured a voice softly whispering, 'Hey'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey! Been trying to meet you.
BEN KISSEL
Oh interesting, I'll meet you, demon.
MARCUS PARKS
(hums Hey by The Pixies) Yeah. Oh, must be the devil!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Devil! It's great, right?
BEN KISSEL
Very good. Good work.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's The Pixies.
BEN KISSEL
Oh The Pixies. Love them.
MARCUS PARKS
Now Captain Austin was fully convinced because he had said his police radio emitted strange noises and stopped working in front of the Carolina Street house.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, I kept on getting these calls for like emergencies and accidents.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Fires.
BEN KISSEL
Strange noises.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Don't you understand? I'm trying to dig into a portal to hell.
BEN KISSEL
Homicide. They said homicide. I was like what a strange noise, what's that word?
MARCUS PARKS
And one of the seats on his police car started moving back and forth uncontrollably when it was parked nearby the house.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(buzzing)
BEN KISSEL
Another mission accomplished as a demon. I'm all powerful, all knowing. Let's move his chair slowly back and forth.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes! I will fuck with his driving settings.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
There goes all your favorites on the radio! Now they're switched.
BEN KISSEL
No!
MARCUS PARKS
Well similarly the social worker who allegedly witnessed the child climbing up the wall backward, she quit her job soon after the discovery of the creepy objects and moved away from Indiana.
BEN KISSEL
All right, so real actions were being taken by people.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. It could also be that this was just the last in a long string of unsettling things seen by a social worker in Gary, Indiana.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
I can't imagine how difficult the job of a social worker in Gary must be.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Her job was she covered child casualties.
BEN KISSEL
Oh yikes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was not a happy job.
BEN KISSEL
Very traumatizing. Go to Chicago, have a hot dog.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I mean even that's gonna be bad.
BEN KISSEL
No, Chicago's got great food.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Not about the food, I'm talking about the social working in Chicago would also be very difficult.
BEN KISSEL
Stop being a social worker.
MARCUS PARKS
Captain Austin was fully immersed in the story at this point so he had his officers check into the history of the house, although I'm not entirely sure what the cops were going to do with that information once they gathered it. Nevertheless they supposedly discovered that the house was built in 1926 by a newlywed couple and their young son supposedly died in the house.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Cool.
MARCUS PARKS
And the wife died soon after that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Got to.
MARCUS PARKS
The widower then sold the house to a landlord who sold it to another landlord and it had acted as a rental property ever since.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It is interesting because you don't hear a lot of... I guess this is also a truly modern tale because it is in a rented house, they don't own it.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Now Father Maginot believed that the original owners of the house might have created a shrine in the basement to communicate with their dead son and believers in possession, as Henry has demonstrated, they usually think that attempting any sort of occult ritual, right down to something as small as playing with the Ouija board, that can open a portal to hell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Or a tarot deck or you get some kind of, you got a seeing ball. You know you ever ever see a ball and then you show up and it turns out it's a baseball and you're like I don't see anything in baseball. But it turns out baseball's demon.
BEN KISSEL
Just to give a little context of Gary here, baseball is demon. I do believe that it was topped the homicide rates for Indiana.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah man.
BEN KISSEL
And they said nearly half of Gary's homicides in 2010 were unsolved. I'm just happy that this case is being worked on.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They are digging in man.
BEN KISSEL
Because that's the most important thing when half of the homicides are unsolved. Is it a demon?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I mean it's so much easier to have it be demons than systemic deep-seated issues.
BEN KISSEL
The only thing where now I'm totally with Marcus, maybe the cops didn't need to be on the case.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, yeah. But it also must be said that nobody before the Ammons nor anyone after the Ammons experienced any kind of paranormal activity in the house except for Zak Bagans. He bought the house for $35,000 after the story broke in 2014 so he could have his biggest ghost adventure yet. But the people who lived there afterwards said no, the people who lived before there said no.
BEN KISSEL
Wait, he's renting it out?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, we'll get to it. You don't wanna spoil.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. However if we stay in the paranormal realm, poltergeist hauntings are admittedly usually attached to people not places. So just because nobody before or after aside from Bagans and his crew experienced nothing, that doesn't mean that nothing has ever happened there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Also I do think it is scenario meets right person. It's one of those things where there is a bit of a kismet about it. Again if you fully believe which I do sometimes traffic into that world, it's all about who shows up. That's what makes a paranormal situation.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
MARCUS PARKS
Is that why you've never seen anything besides the orb and that thing that you think was an orb in the Edinburgh cemetery but it wasn't?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I saw a picture, I took a picture of an orb.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, I saw it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But then also yeah, I saw a thing. But yes, maybe it's because I do believe there's another show-
BEN KISSEL
Now you've seen two orbs now.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
There's a thing I'm watching- I got 'em right here.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah, those are your boobies. Yeah, nice.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I've also been watching a show called 28 Days Haunted which is fine. Our buddy Aaron Sagers runs it, he's great.
BEN KISSEL
Yes of course.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
But again it's deep in the demonologist medium territory. But I do think that there's something. When I was watching Demon House, I kinda was like man they should like move in and act like you're living there. Don't bust it open with cameras and shit yet. Move in and put your clothes in the drawer, make food for yourself, be in the environment. Because I think that's where it starts to the subtly encroach into your life.
BEN KISSEL
Okay, maybe they didn't have the time.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They had to shoot.
BEN KISSEL
They had to shoot.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Now on the next visit to the home the same group of officials sans the original case worker came, this time with a dog in tow. Dog didn't give a shit about anything in the house which is surprising considering how sensitive dogs can be to this sort of thing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Sure.
MARCUS PARKS
But it was discovered that the window blinds in the attic were dripping with oil.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Dripping in oil.
BEN KISSEL
Dripping with oil?
MARCUS PARKS
Now the more skeptical officers surmised that Latoya's mother had anointed the walls and blinds with oil in a ritual. So the officers wiped down the area and sealed off the room to make sure the mother couldn't break back in and cover everything up in more shit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
MARCUS PARKS
But when the investigators returned, they found that more oil was dripping from the blind.
BEN KISSEL
Are we talking like Newman's Own? Are we talking Italian dressing here? What do you mean oil?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was a clear viscous oil.
BEN KISSEL
Viscous oil.
MARCUS PARKS
Perhaps unadvisedly the new social worker who replaced the original, a woman named Samantha Ilic, she touched the oil and was immediately affected. The blood drained from the finger that touched the oil, the finger bent as if it were broken, and she began having a panic attack. And indeed there are pictures of her finger at the scene and it is far paler than the other four fingers. Noticeably so.
BEN KISSEL
All right, pale finger.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Pale finger.
BEN KISSEL
And demons.
MARCUS PARKS
Father Maginot naturally claimed that the oil was a sort of ectoplasm, a manifestation of the demonic presence.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demon come.
BEN KISSEL
Interesting.
MARCUS PARKS
Yes. Personally I think this might have been another example of how this house was to use a clinical term all fucked up.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
All fucked up.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because it very well could be some form of mold or pollution itself literally just building on the walls.
BEN KISSEL
Demon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Things could slide up from, again, is it just sitting on a toxic waste dump? I don't know.
BEN KISSEL
We don't know. Demons.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. But on the other hand, the finger incident wasn't the only bad thing to happen to that woman after she visited the house. She broke three ribs within 30 days in separate incidents.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Clumsy.
MARCUS PARKS
And the bad luck she encountered was spread around to just about everyone involved.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah, man. Multiple people, a lot of people. This is also one of those weird things which is like is it about perspective or is it real where people went to the house and when they left it their lives would just get fucked up.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. And of course Jesus Christ himself, He had some broken ribs as they stabbed him.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They sliced his side.
BEN KISSEL
Yes, indeed. So perhaps there's something to that. Demons.
MARCUS PARKS
I think you're starting to get demonology.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
We need to set you up with a YouTube channel, man.
BEN KISSEL
Ooh, sweet.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
All you gotta do is yell at everybody for a while and just remember that Trump is an angel.
BEN KISSEL
I'd say dee-mahns. That's how I'd say it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demons.
BEN KISSEL
Demons.
MARCUS PARKS
But Captain Austin said that he had multiple near death experiences and Zak Bagans became afflicted with an eye condition that nearly blinded him and still affects him to this day.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I know this to be true.
BEN KISSEL
Weird.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes, it is weird. Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
That was after Zak barricaded himself in the house overnight and basically made it an airtight chamber which may also possibly point towards something real fucked up environmentally.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Poison.
BEN KISSEL
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Environmental maybe.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Because he said he had something like this horrible pain behind his eyes and he still has to wear these glasses with prisms in them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS
Shit like that.
BEN KISSEL
Kinda really ruined himself physically.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It fucked him up.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah, fucked him up bad. And the original case worker who quit, she had to enter intensive therapy to deal with what she experienced. But about a month after the kids were taken away to live in another house and their symptoms seemed to clear up, Father Maginot decided that the demon or demons were fixated on Latoya Ammons specifically. She claimed to have suffered from repeated illnesses, she had headaches when she was in or near the house, and she had recurring dreams about violently raping her own mother.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Not good!
BEN KISSEL
Oh my goodness gracious!
MARCUS PARKS
And so Father Maginot again requested an exorcism and was finally granted permission to perform three major exorcisms, two in English, one in Latin.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's a big get.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
These three rites were spread out over a month. And Father Maginot noted that the demon name that evoked the strongest response from Latoya was Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. (metal guitar riff)
BEN KISSEL
Beelzebub. Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
That's one of the big boys. That's a big boy one.
BEN KISSEL
That's a huge one, that's the one, isn't it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well he's one of the second in command, right, of hell.
BEN KISSEL
Who's number one?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Satan.
MARCUS PARKS
Lucifer.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah. Well Lucifer depending on whether or not you think he's a different entity than Satan.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Because I don't know. There's that theological debate that you can fall asleep listening to.
BEN KISSEL
And what a fun debate it is.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And there's also the concept that what if again, right, these things lie. So again, resident demon here, Henry Zebrowski, Gary Bunda, is that how often you show up and it could be some lesser demon just saying he's Beelzebub. That's the other too cause they always lie.
BEN KISSEL
They lie!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
They always lie.
MARCUS PARKS
Interesting. But even though Maginot was faced with what demonologists believe is one of the most powerful demons in existence, he claimed to have exercised Latoya of all the malevolent entities plaguing her.
BEN KISSEL
Nice.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yep. He just went back and he went Kobe!
BEN KISSEL
Boom.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Threw the fucking crucifix into her pussy, the demons ran out of her mouth and it was just an incredible day. Great Wednesday.
BEN KISSEL
Isn't that something? Wow, he just did it. He just did all that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He just did it, man.
BEN KISSEL
Wow.
MARCUS PARKS
By November Ammons had regained custody of her three children and one of the family's caseworkers noted that the family no longer fixated solely on religion or the paranormal to explain or cope with the children's behavioral issues.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. That seemed to have relaxed some of it.
BEN KISSEL
Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
The less talk of you are all demon children.
BEN KISSEL
That's good.
MARCUS PARKS
The family then moved to Indianapolis permanently and have not experienced any other hauntings. But after two years went by the Indy Star heard about the haunting and published a story in 2014 that quickly gained nationwide attention. I remember we were briefly obsessed with this story, we showed it at our at our live show at The Creek.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes.
MARCUS PARKS
We showed the news report, the original news report.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Well because it was creepy as fuck because that original news report was very scary because it's the first time you saw an anonymous cop being like yeah I saw demons and I know that demons are real. And there's just something about a voice modified person is also extra scary.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
Half of the homicides unsolved.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hey man, they're in the microfiche, they're doing all sorts of shit for this, man.
BEN KISSEL
Wow. Nothing else to work on in Gary.
MARCUS PARKS
Well as we've said, Zak Bagans bought the house that same year for $35,000 and after making his documentary he very dramatically decided to tear it down for the good of all mankind. So unfortunately the extent of the investigation will forever remain of the ghost bro variety.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I did like he did an interview with two cops that he was talking to and they remained anonymous but one of them was like, 'I don't know if you should knock this house down, man. Because if that's the portal to hell, what's the house plugging up?'
BEN KISSEL
That is just fantastic. Half of the homicides unsolved.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It's like if you knocked on the house... I was like if that was the portal to hell, that's Ghostbusters II. That's Ghostbusters II.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
I'm gonna say it's not the portal to hell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Interesting. Bit of a debunker I see. The little man in your butt right now is filling you with lies and you'll say anything possible for you to wrap up the show so you can continue to go and have diarrhea in your home.
MARCUS PARKS
And you know what? I'm not gonna let you do that. I'm gonna go ahead and continue and say that he tore it down in 2016, remember the world kind of started going to shit right around 2016? What if it was plugging shit up and now that's why everything's been fun for the last seven years, six years, because the portal to hell is fucking open bro.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Think about it, David Bowie died. It's the portal to hell. These fucking guys showed up and now we're fucked!
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. Totally reasonable. Totally reasonable.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah. Well it was that and David Bowie dying. After David Bowie died he was fucking plugging it up and then this was plugging it up, they were plugging up two sides of the earth and now it's all fucked.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Plugs! Plugs!
BEN KISSEL
Yeah. Well put something over it again. What is it there now?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You know what would fit perfectly in that hole?
BEN KISSEL
What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Danny DeVito.
BEN KISSEL
Danny DeVito. Put him in there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We just put his tomato shaped body into the hole. He just has to sacrifice himself for the good of humanity.
BEN KISSEL
He would. That's the kinda guy he is.
MARCUS PARKS
Well all we'll ever have now is the testimony of those who experienced the haunting. However we actually know relatively little about the details. This should be a two or three part series, this is a fascinating story. But soon after the story broke, Latoya Ammons sold the rights to the story and has refused to talk to anyone about it any further.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
And I will advise our listeners to do exactly the same if you get a chance, if Netflix shows up with that fucking cargo truck full of money to buy your ghost story.
BEN KISSEL
Oh yeah, that Netflix money that's going around.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It used to be. You just take that money.
BEN KISSEL
I mean take some of the rights. Own at least 10%.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Always own yours. I don't know.
MARCUS PARKS
I don't know, this is a pretty good one-off. Netflix paid $65 million for the story.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Bro. And they moved to Indianapolis. They didn't just go to Miami?
BEN KISSEL
They got $65 million for this?
MARCUS PARKS
Well that's the thing, I'm somewhat curious about this because Netflix paid $65 million for the story in a bidding war. So I think somebody bought the story from the Ammons for probably not that much money, relatively little.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yes. I can almost assure you that that is what happened. A producer showed up, bought them for whatever they could get, and then he flipped it to various companies by putting it in a pitch deck and he made the money or they made the money.
MARCUS PARKS
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
All right.
MARCUS PARKS
And the movie is in post production, it's called The Deliverance and it's directed by the guy who did Precious. It's got Omar Epps in it. Remember him?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Ooh, love him!
BEN KISSEL
I love Omar.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Do you remember when he followed everyone on Twitter? That was the only good day on that website.
MARCUS PARKS
That's fun. And that movie is probably gonna come out next year. It's in post production.
BEN KISSEL
Well there you go, that'll be great.
MARCUS PARKS
Hopefully once the movie is released, Latoya Ammons and specifically her children might open up a little more as to what really happened in Gary, Indiana in 2014. Because while it certainly may be the case that this house simply sits atop a toxic waste area that puts the pipes of Flint, Michigan to shame, it's also possible that something truly paranormal made itself known at 3860 Carolina Street.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
(evil laughter)
BEN KISSEL
Cool. Demons.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Another Halloween tale! And it is almost as scary as the gastrointestinal problems of Benjamin Kissel.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. That's the real story today. Okay everyone, thank you so much for listening.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Again, it's nice to be back in ghost territory.
BEN KISSEL
I love it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're gonna be doing more of these.
BEN KISSEL
This wasn't a ghost, my friend.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
This was a demon.
BEN KISSEL
A demon!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
It was a demon. But it's just so good, it's good to get spooky.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're back in America. Marcus is alive as you can hear.
BEN KISSEL
As you can hear.
MARCUS PARKS
Barely, about 90%, or 70%, 80% alive. 70%.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
You're 80% alive.
BEN KISSEL
100% alive.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He's 100% alive, 80% hard.
MARCUS PARKS
Yes.
BEN KISSEL
I learned that you're never dying, you are dead when you're dead. A nurse told me that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Is that a little man inside of you?
BEN KISSEL
No, you're alive and then you're dead. But no one's ever dying.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
That's scary.
MARCUS PARKS
So why do we have the word? Why do we have the word 'dying' if no one is ever dying?
BEN KISSEL
I don't know man, a nurse told me that, dude.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
She was just trying to get you back to her hotel room.
BEN KISSEL
No one's ever dying. You're alive and then you're dead.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Is this that same woman when we were in Indianapolis the last time?
BEN KISSEL
No, that old cougar?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Yeah.
BEN KISSEL
No, no, no. God, that woman. There was a torrid affair that we witnessed firsthand because they both had wedding rings on but they weren't with each others wives or husbands.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
No, they were slipping on each other.
BEN KISSEL
That's Indy for ya. Which we will be inside of soon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Very soon. We got Grand Rapids and Indianapolis on the 18th and the 19th. We are also, I want to put it out there, if you are in the Austin or Dallas area, check out the Release The Butthole Cut tour for Page 7 and Wizard and the Bruiser, 11/17 in Austin at Elmo's and I believe is at the Dallas Theater in Dallas on November 18th. Check it out. I think it's gonna be a fun time.
BEN KISSEL
WizBru, Page 7 going on tour, trying to make a little bit of money for us. That would be great if they did that for us, that would be awesome.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Put them on the stroll.
BEN KISSEL
Release The Butthole Cut. But now I see James Corden and I'm thinking really do we need to see it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
I don't want to see his, no.
BEN KISSEL
I don't want to see it. He's a mean, mean man. Okay everyone, thank you.
MARCUS PARKS
He is a butthole.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
He ain't got no butthole.
MARCUS PARKS
He is a butthole. That's what I said, he is a butthole.
BEN KISSEL
Demons!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Demon! Guys, I hope you have a happy Halloween because you know what's the best part is that when Halloween is on a Monday it means Halloween is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
So check it out, go out there. Show your boobies if you're a man or a woman.
BEN KISSEL
Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Show everybody that you're the pumpkin nobody's gonna fuck with this fucking year.
BEN KISSEL
Absolutely. Have some candy if you want it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Really good.
BEN KISSEL
Okay everyone, hail yourselves!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hail Satan!
MARCUS PARKS
Hail Gein.
BEN KISSEL
Megustalations everybody.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Hail me, man. All right? Cause Gary Bunda, he's just a cute loveable demon. Again, new episodes of Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell cartoon version are on YouTube right now.
BEN KISSEL
Fantastic.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
Go check that out, all right. Because that's the only demon you need to trust. Because guess what? Most of the time we're bumbling halflings. Right?
BEN KISSEL
Demons!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI
We're demons. We're fun. We're funny.
BEN KISSEL
Sure.