HENRY ZEBROWSKI Log jamming is actually one of the complicated procedures they use on Monarch slaves.
MARCUS PARKS Is it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This podcast is dedicated to the 3 million Americans and counting-
BEN KISSEL And counting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And counting.
BEN KISSEL What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI With Monarch-type programming. Now if there is any chance that the listener has had mind
control done to you, you must consider the following podcast to be dangerous.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI If you are consulting a therapist for DID, it is recommended that you consult your therapist
before listening to this podcast.
BEN KISSEL What's DID?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Dungeons In Dragons.
MARCUS PARKS Dissociative Identity Disorder.
BEN KISSEL Okay, got it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The podcast listener's mind is like a garden. It may not be time to plant the truth in your mind.
Perhaps you need some weeding or ground preparation before the garden of your mind is
ready. Perhaps the weather is too stormy to plant the truth.
BEN KISSEL Are you Mark Zuckerberg talking about the Metaverse right now?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm grilling meats.
MARCUS PARKS I'm here with these meats!
BEN KISSEL Oh my god, that's a trigger word. Welcome to Last Podcast on the Left everyone. I am Ben
hanging out with Henry and Marcus.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The blessings of the podcast that flow from planting the information of this podcast to your
mind will require the presence of the living waters of love.
BEN KISSEL Wow. I am so happy to be ending this series but I'm also so happy we did it. Henry is ruined.
Marcus, you're still an iron trap. Nothing can shake you.
MARCUS PARKS Oh no, not at all, man.
BEN KISSEL But we are onto MK Ultra part 5. And I, after this, need to be deprogrammed.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Is that a light at the end of the tunnel or is it a train?
BEN KISSEL Can it just be a light?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga.
BEN KISSEL Oh man.
MARCUS PARKS So when we were last privy to the secrets of the MK Ultra program, it was the late 50s and the
two most infamous experiments, psychic driving and Operation Midnight Climax, were
deemed to be either failures or highly unethical.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It is one or the other. Certainly not both.
MARCUS PARKS In addition, the first cracks to the protective shell around MK Ultra secrecy were starting to
show. In 1956 a senator from Montana named Mike Mansfield went in front of Congress and
did his best to bring light to the illegal and immoral activities that the CIA had been getting up
to since its inception.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm here showing true bravery, that's why my name's Mansfield, not Boysfield.
BEN KISSEL Absolutely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI We must be the Mansfields we needs to bees to stand up to the CIA and their mind control
programming.
BEN KISSEL Wasn't that what MK Ultra was trying to do? Create fields of men that they could then just
pluck out for to do whatever mission they want?
MARCUS PARKS Fields of men and female sex slaves.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Betas.
BEN KISSEL Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.
MARCUS PARKS But we'll get to all that later. We're getting way ahead of ourselves.
BEN KISSEL Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS Well amongst other offenses that were all true, Mansfield said that the CIA was funding neonazis
in Germany-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yep.
MARCUS PARKS Illegally detaining foreign citizens for months at a time-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Check.
MARCUS PARKS And toppling foreign governments.
BEN KISSEL I love this deleted scene from Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and gets his dick sucked by a mind controlled slave.
BEN KISSEL Whoa!
MARCUS PARKS Well this guy argued for full transparency of the CIA, rightly assuming that if this is what we
know about, then god knows what else they're up to.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yep.
MARCUS PARKS And granted, this is also the argument conspiracy theorists make about MK Ultra.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Sometimes they're right.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. But President Eisenhower killed the bill, saying that the CIA needed absolute secrecy to
do its job properly.
BEN KISSEL Boo!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Basically he's saying he needed them to have secrecy so that he wouldn't know what they
were doing.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Right. So what is that called?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Plausible deniability.
BEN KISSEL Plausible deniability.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Get used to saying that.
BEN KISSEL Plausible deniability.
MARCUS PARKS Therefore MK Ultra stayed a secret for another 20 years and the CIA was free to continue the
same dead-end experiments that were both destroying minds and much to the CIA's later
chagrin, opening them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, dog.
MARCUS PARKS Now in 1959 a novel debuted with a plot eerily similar to some of the projects that MK Ultra
had been working on throughout the decade. In this book, an infantry platoon in Korea is
brainwashed and programmed to return to the United States with the mission of killing a
presidential candidate to set up a communist takeover.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Coincidence?!
BEN KISSEL Whoa, cool.
MARCUS PARKS That book was called 'The Manchurian Candidate'.
BEN KISSEL Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS It was a total work of fiction that nonetheless made its way into conspiracy fact. But to be fair,
the CIA had been trying to create just such an agent as was described in the book. They just
hadn't gotten very far.
BEN KISSEL Well I think there's something with the CIA not being able to make someone charming. And
you do have to have just a small amount of charm to run for any political office.
MARCUS PARKS Yep.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well also a lot of times the guys who run for political office, don't they don't they normally,
back in the day they started as dweebs, right? They were a little bit more buttoned down.
Some of them were wild and crazy. So you have to figure out a way to shake it up, so why not
throw a little mind control in there? Maybe insert a little fucking telephone up into their nose,
like a little kind of old school computer doo-dad. Then you can control their emotions from far
away.
BEN KISSEL So you're a satanic human chef.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes.
MARCUS PARKS Is that what happened to Ted Cruz?
BEN KISSEL What do you mean?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You notice I'm not going to say the words because I don't want to be put it on the list. So I'm
just gonna go - you see? I just mouthed the word to Marcus and you can't even hear what I
said.
BEN KISSEL I saw it though and I'm not even gonna tell the people what you mouthed.
MARCUS PARKS Well in a chilling story from 1954, Morse Allen, one of the heads of MK Ultra, performed an
experiment on a secretary in which she was put into a deep trance and was told to keep
sleeping until he broke the spell. Then he hypnotized a second secretary and told her that if
she couldn't wake her sleeping friend, then she had no choice but to murder her.
BEN KISSEL Wait, there has to be another option.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cunnilingus. That's where all those sleeping porns come from.
BEN KISSEL Oh my goodness.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Those are always weird.
BEN KISSEL Quite odd.
MARCUS PARKS To complete it, Allen left an unloaded pistol nearby to make the mock murder easy to commit.
Just so she wouldn't just freak out and use her hands and strangled the woman to death, you
have to give her a target, a path.
BEN KISSEL This is why it's not that crazy when people are like, 'I think they killed Marilyn Monroe'.
Because you hear stories like this, you're like yeah, maybe they did.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This is what we've been saying, man, is that that's the reason why it opens the doors to all
these conspiracy theorists because they did shit like this.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But also that secretary needed to have been sort of prodded into knowing how to use a gun in
the first place. That's kind of the way, it starts with the tentacle arm goes to one side where
she needs to have some sort of gun training, be familiar with it, not be afraid to pick it up. So
that's how the hypnotism can take hold and then she can be like, 'Yeah, I can't wait to kill this
fucking bitch.'
BEN KISSEL All right, gun safety training.
MARCUS PARKS Well according to reports, the second secretary failed to wake the first. So she picked up the
gun, pointed it at her target, and pulled the trigger over and over and over again.
BEN KISSEL Pamela? Pamela? What are you doing?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Click-click-click-click.
BEN KISSEL I've known you for 15 years, we're close friends.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's how it goes. That's honestly, I hope, how one of us ends.
MARCUS PARKS When this woman was taken out of her trance, she had no memory of trying to kill the other
secretary.
BEN KISSEL Wow.
MARCUS PARKS This is indeed compelling.
BEN KISSEL Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS But it is not proof that the CIA had the ability to consistently create a so-called Manchurian
candidate. It is however proof that they tried.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I think the term is consistent which is what we talked about a little bit last episode is that it
sounds like it can work in a certain percentage of human beings. And this type of training can
work in a percentage of certain human beings, especially people that are hyper hypnotizable,
hyper suggestible. A lot of times it means you're a moron. I do think that that's a part of it is
that you are of a simpler temperament or more sensitive temperament that allows you to be
more manipulated by these things. But again they couldn't bank on it.
MARCUS PARKS No.
BEN KISSEL Well because if you do get a Manchurian candidate, you would have to control them for a long
time.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL At some point they're just gonna wake up and then they're just gonna end up ruining
everything that you wanted them to create.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well that was the idea. Again, you Dana Carvey them. You give them a clean slate at the end of
it, that's the whole idea of it is that you wipe them clean so that they also don't know how to
walk or eat or fucking drink. They become vegetables. That's the hope.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL For the president.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI If I was gonna do it.
BEN KISSEL You know what? I think they succeeded.
MARCUS PARKS But the problem with that is that even though they're trying to mind wipe and put a new
personality, an alter on these people, a lot of conspiracy theories will point to a certain person
and say, for example, we used to have a whole bit in our live show about how Casey Anthony
was an MK Ultra agent.
BEN KISSEL Sure, right.
MARCUS PARKS But that's the thing is that they don't have the technology to just implant a thought into a
person's brain without them knowing it, without mind wiping it first. MK Ultra is just full of
contradictions like that.
BEN KISSEL All I know is I'm eating good in the neighborhood. I'm loving it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Whoa!
BEN KISSEL I just like it my way. I'm gonna eat my fourth meal.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Are you a hip young teen?
BEN KISSEL I am.
MARCUS PARKS Well furthermore, fiction like 'The Manchurian Candidate' about communist countries using
mind control, this fueled the CIA's belief that mind control technology existed. It was a
feedback loop much like people who already believe that their lives are a simulation have that
belief bolstered when they watch the Matrix. But as we already know, the communists were
never working on mind control technology in the way we thought of it. And by the late 50s the
CIA was in possession of this knowledge.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Where the communists did succeed is convince a large portion of our female population to
stop shaving their armpits.
BEN KISSEL And you know what? I'm here for it. I'm fine with it, I don't mind.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm just saying, they did succeed in a way. I'm a good American.
BEN KISSEL I don't mind a little rubble under there, I'm just gonna say.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's cool.
MARCUS PARKS I'm into it, I like it.
BEN KISSEL All I'm gonna say is with the Matrix, how many chubby nerds threw their back out trying to be
Neo?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I can't bend like that! I bought the leather jacket!
MARCUS PARKS I do know at least three chubby nerds murdered someone because of it.
BEN KISSEL Wait, what?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, there's a fair amount of Matrix-inspired murders, guys who believed that they were in a
simulation and so tried to test it by killing someone and then they ended up just going to
prison and they realized that it is not a simulation anyway whatsoever. Murder is very real.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Super real.
BEN KISSEL Ironically in prison it is kind of a simulation though, isn't it? Every day is the same.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Whoa.
BEN KISSEL Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You're talking about the wonderful structure of prison?
BEN KISSEL That's crazy. That's a whole other episode, Matrix murders.
MARCUS PARKS Well during the late 50s, Allen Dulles tasked two agents with actually finding out if the
communists could control minds. Cause I suppose it took them a while to figure out that
maybe they should have definitive proof instead of just assumptions if they were going to
commit all these atrocities.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That was like a running line, one of the arms of MK Ultra was to go send somebody out to do
this. Because they were like we don't need permission to figure out brainwashing on our own
because it's imperative, right, because if we can do it, they are definitely doing it, and they're
super evil, we're looking great.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So they're definitely doing it. And I think that it wasn't until probably years into the program
that finally when the definitive proof came out saying that the Russians and Chinese did not
have brainwashing techniques, they were like, 'But think about what we've learned.'
BEN KISSEL Just don't know.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Not only not only had the Soviets and Chinese never discovered the secrets to mind
control, they hadn't even tried to discover those secrets.
BEN KISSEL This reminds me of someone who thinks that everyone is after them but in reality they're just
doing meth and they're in a trailer somewhere and no one even knows that they exist.
MARCUS PARKS A lot of this ship is related to gang stalking which we'll get into later on.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yay!
MARCUS PARKS But even though the pressure to make MK Ultra work was decreasing, there was still a Cold
War going on and the CIA used some of what it learned from MK Ultra to attempt
assassinations around the world. Now make no mistake, the CIA Was indirectly or directly
involved in a lot of political assassinations during the time MK Ultra was active, including
Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo, Swedish diplomat Dag Hammarskj ld, and South
Vietnamese president Ng Đ nh Diệm.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, what'd that Swedish dude do?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Invented skis. I don't know what they do over there, man.
BEN KISSEL He must die!
MARCUS PARKS I can't remember exactly why the CIA hated him. I think it was one of those things where he
was like, 'Maybe we shouldn't kill each other.'
BEN KISSEL Oh he's gonna have to die.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, whatever man. He's a fucking turd in the punchbowl.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, I think it was actually a lot more complicated than that. It was honestly far too boring for
me to go into on the show.
BEN KISSEL I don't know, all I know is he probably sounded like that Muppet and I think that's funny.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, I do too. I think he should also be shot in the head.
BEN KISSEL Well it's a Muppet.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Choose a side!
BEN KISSEL You're just gonna hurt somebody's hands.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm sick of everyone being neutral.
MARCUS PARKS But perhaps not surprisingly given MK Ultra's track record for success, none of the
assassinations involving MK Ultra tactics or personnel ever worked or should I say ever worked
as far as we know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Thank you.
MARCUS PARKS I got a lot of caveats in this episode that are just for you, buddy.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Thank you. I feel seen, I feel heard and acknowledged. There's been space made for the
conspiracy theorists.
BEN KISSEL Fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS For example, in September of 1960 the CIA decided to murder Patrice Lumumba, the Prime
Minister of the Republic of Congo, just three months after the country gained its
independence from Belgium. See the month before, an undercover CIA agent working at the
American Embassy in that country, reported that the Republic of Congo was edging towards a
communist takeover.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No!
BEN KISSEL We also just had a recent assassination of another African leader as well.
MARCUS PARKS It happens fairly often.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, and the CIA was involved in that.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Wow. Those CIA guys. Hi! Hi, good work. You guys are so busy all the time.
BEN KISSEL I mean to be fair, if they are listening, thank you, it is a podcast. If we were recording this alone
without any equipment, that would be scary.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. But because the Republic of Congo was supposedly edging towards communism, Patrice
Lumumba had to go. Now just shooting Lumumba might potentially cause more problems
because the Republic of the Congo was no more stable at its founding than it is today or at any
time in its existence. But to avoid any sort of hubbub, the CIA tasked MK Ultra father and head
poison-maker Sidney Gottlieb with quietly poisoning the prime minister of a foreign country
without any approval from the president or congress.
BEN KISSEL Uh oh.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah because he was willing to just say yes because he also understood how secrecy is
important, okay. It's so important. We need trust within the CIA. And you know how hard this
when everyone's a spy and half of them were trained in hypnotism or tripping balls.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And so it comes down to it, you never know when you're going to get laced with some kind of
bullshit on your salad just because you ordered it from Tim instead of the other PA we'll who
hasn't been around for long enough.
BEN KISSEL I would trust a juggalo more than anyone who works for the CIA. I feel like the CIA offices are
just a buttoned-up Bonnaroo at this point and I don't think you can trust anything they say.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. I mean in the 50s the CIA Was like the grooviest place in America. How's that for fucking
irony?
BEN KISSEL So weird.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But hey, they did that super funny CIA comedy with the big woman, what's her name? Melissa
Magunty?
BEN KISSEL Melissa McCarthy.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And how cute is that? She's just a little housewife. Oh what a cute little member of the CIA,
certainly it's not propaganda in any way, shape, or form. It's cute. She fell down. Oh that's so
funny.
BEN KISSEL Well that's good humor.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Tell Melissa Magunty what she's doing to the fabric of American society.
BEN KISSEL Jackie Zebrowski has earwormed you because she is upset with any actress that is not her. It's
Zebrowski trait, let's say.
MARCUS PARKS It is. Well to figure out the best way to poison a foreign leader, Sidney Gottlieb drew on his
deep MK Ultra bench and asked Dr. Ewen Cameron, the creator of psychic driving, for his
expert psychological opinion on Lumumba's personality.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You see what you want to do there, you're going to want to put together a personality profile,
you're going to want to take a look at their shit. Because you can tell a lot from a man from
what he's eating.
BEN KISSEL That's probably true.
MARCUS PARKS Cameron surmised that Lumumba was a vain person who paid particular attention to his looks
and especially his teeth. So it was decided that Gottlieb would poison Lumumba's toothpaste
with botulinum toxin.
BEN KISSEL No!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So he gave him botulism.
MARCUS PARKS Well basically, yeah. Botulinum toxin, if you put just the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest bit of drop on
someone's food, they're dead within a day.
BEN KISSEL Dang.
MARCUS PARKS But the thing is about it, it's like what the Russians did with the poison.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Polonium.
MARCUS PARKS Polonium, yeah.
BEN KISSEL In the sushi.
MARCUS PARKS In the sushi, yeah. Where you give it to them but then you get the funk out of there so by the
time they die, you're nowhere near.
BEN KISSEL Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He melts. It takes him several days to melt. Man, he looked rough.
BEN KISSEL He really did. Also what Kim Jong-un did to his half brother when he had those two gals spray
real quick. And they thought they were part of a reality television show and they actually did
not end up going to prison.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL That's actually kind of close to an MK Ultra agent.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Dude, they were assets.
MARCUS PARKS Now Gottlieb was super jazzed when he was given the chance to use his skills in the murder of
a foreign head of state.
BEN KISSEL Oh how exciting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yay!
BEN KISSEL It's game day, boys!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Do you think it's like Beauty and the Beast where all of his poisons sit unused and they're just
waiting, they're longing for a chance to finally serve a purpose?
MARCUS PARKS So he built an assassination kit comprised of liquid botulinum, a hypodermic syringe with an
ultra thin needle, and a pre-poisoned tube of toothpaste.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS He then traveled to the Republic of Congo with what he called his bag of dirty tricks.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This is what he called it.
MARCUS PARKS That's what he called it, making him the only CIA officer known to carry a poison overseas to
kill a foreign leader.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI USA! USA!
BEN KISSEL It's my bag of dirty tricks. Just pull it out, it's my whites.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Honestly, he's got to have one dildo in there. Something fun, right?
BEN KISSEL Of course, yeah.
MARCUS PARKS However the CIA agent tasked with poisoning Lumumba couldn't penetrate Lumumba's
security. And besides, Lumumba was executed by his enemies and dissolved in acid 6 weeks
later anyway.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They just need to play the waiting game.
BEN KISSEL Oh my god. I guess that would be weird, just be like, 'I got a tube of toothpaste for your
president!'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Brought a tube of toothpaste from grand old America for you! So don't use that all at once.
BEN KISSEL Not poison.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Honestly it'd be best if you did use all of it at once.
BEN KISSEL All of it. It's not poison.
MARCUS PARKS And while the CIA had worked with the Congolese and the Belgians who assassinated
Lumumba prior to the assassination, they did not participate in the capture or the acid bath.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They were the inspiration. The muse like Julia Fox was to the Uncut Gems people.
BEN KISSEL Fantastic. What do you got to do in life to get killed in a vat of acid? Something's gone horribly
wrong.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Just be the wrong leader at the wrong time.
BEN KISSEL Yeah. It does remind me of that scene in RoboCop though that we were talking about
yesterday. (screaming)
HENRY ZEBROWSKI (screaming)
BEN KISSEL It's so cool!
MARCUS PARKS And then there's the (splat).
BEN KISSEL When he gets hit by the car.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's so good.
MARCUS PARKS Wonderful. Well perhaps the most well known of the CIA's assassination attempts on world
leaders is that of Cuba's Fidel Castro. And perhaps not surprisingly, Sidney Gottlieb and MK
Ultra's dirty little fingerprints were all over those attempts.
BEN KISSEL Are you telling me they're going to give him the exploding cigar?
MARCUS PARKS Actually Sidney Gottlieb was responsible for the poisoned cigars, not the exploding cigars.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS Amongst many, many others.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Sidney Gottlieb more and more turns into an evil Keebler Elf from the Bronx. He is more and
more just to being like, 'Yes, let's see what happens with the caramels! Caramels, the most
deceitful, delicious way to die.'
BEN KISSEL All I know is I'm not eating anything at that dude's house.
MARCUS PARKS Nope. Now if you listened to our JFK series then you know that Kennedy officially authorized
the assassination of Fidel Castro in 1961 with Operation Mongoose. But before Kennedy and
Mongoose, you had Eisenhower, Gottlieb, and MK Ultra. After Eisenhower ordered that Castro
be quote unquote "sawed off"-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cool.
BEN KISSEL Jeez.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Saw that fucker off.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Saw that fucker off! You see his fucking helmet bouncing around and shit.
MARCUS PARKS The CIA began concocting plans to take him down, first trying nonlethal means using what
Gottlieb had learned from MK Ultra experiments. And this is not mind control experiments.
This is the chemical side of MK Ultra.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because you remember, the octopus of malice has many tentacles. It's more than eight.
Probably, I believe they said it's 149 subprojects that are officially underneath the umbrella of
MK Ultra. So it has 149 tentacles.
BEN KISSEL And that's just the ones we know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's got the two little secret ones that crawl up your asshole.
BEN KISSEL Oh, those are my favorite ones!
MARCUS PARKS Well the first plan was to use what they learned in Operation Midnight Climax, specifically the
tactic of using an aerosol form of LSD. In theory, they could spray airborne acid into a radio
studio just before Castro made a live broadcast which would cause Castro to act a fool on air.
BEN KISSEL I hate to break this to you but we just made Fidel Castro the greatest radio DJ of all time.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's a part of the flashing lights techniques that they used in Project Monarch along with
aerosol acid, they'd drop into the various dance clubs of America to transfix the youth so
they'd get used to the constant flow of entertainment and don't bother to read the news.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS Well after this was deemed impractical, they moved on to Castro's physical appearance,
believing that Castro's power laid in his beard. Gottlieb figured-
BEN KISSEL Wait.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He's Jason Momoa.
BEN KISSEL Is he Samson? Is this the bible? What's going on?
MARCUS PARKS That is exactly what they thought. It's like Samson, if we take away his beard, we take away his
charisma and his power structure will fall apart beneath him.
BEN KISSEL Okay, that's dumb.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Sometimes it's nice to shave your beard though when you're with somebody who's used to
because then it's like a new person.
BEN KISSEL Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So it's kind of nice actually, I think if his beard fell off everybody would be like, 'Que refresco.
Fidel Castro has got such a baby face.'
BEN KISSEL Yeah, it's really nice. But it's also not. I've just never shaved my beard and been like, 'I feel
weaker now.'
MARCUS PARKS Well they figured they could sprinkle gallium salts in Castro's boots and that would cause his
beard to fall out. They'd basically lightly poison him. But this was deemed really fucking stupid
for a lot of different reasons.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Great.
MARCUS PARKS And after Gottlieb put forth dozens more ideas, including the poisoned cigar idea, each more
acid-inspired than the last, they stopped asking him. And by the time Lyndon johnson was in
power, the far-flung assassination plots involving Castro were finally put to rest.
BEN KISSEL Did anyone just mentioned sniper?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, just shoot him in the fucking head!
BEN KISSEL Shoot him in the head.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Drop a bomb on his house!
BEN KISSEL What are we doing here?
MARCUS PARKS But even though MK Ultra never changed the course of global political events, it still had a
profound effect on the world in the form of the 60s counterculture.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah man, fucking no pants out there, dog. Fucking bush hair, man. You got a blanket shirt on,
you're sleeping in the mud, you don't care if it's raining. It's 1969, man. It took fucking three
days to park! Back in the day, man. No Seamless, dude.
BEN KISSEL No Seamless. It reminds me of Woodstock part 2 when everyone was just covered in human
shit. They're like, 'It's great!'
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They were covered in human shit in fucking Woodstock part 1!
BEN KISSEL They loved being covered in dook.
MARCUS PARKS No, that was Woodstock '99. Woodstock '94, that was pure mud, my friend.
BEN KISSEL I don't think it was, it was right by the outhouse.
MARCUS PARKS No, you're thinking about Woodstock '99. That was the one that was right near the outhouse
and everyone was like, 'Yeah, the mud! We're doing it like Woodstock '94.' And everyone else
said that it was the foulest fucking smell they'd ever encountered in their lives.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm covered with some kind of white crud.
MARCUS PARKS Now sure, I've got my opinions on hippies that you're all well aware of but no matter my
opinions or how quickly the movement dwindled into futility, one can't discount the long term
reverberation of the early 60s counterculture.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, dude. You had straight up people like the weathermen, there was a lot of weird shit
happening like in terms of domestic terrorism that was hippie-led, which is really interesting,
against the government that they did not believe in. And they were very, very serious in the
beginning.
MARCUS PARKS Oh, the Up Against The Wall Motherfuckers?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, those guys were something else.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Like The Weather Underground.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL So it's so strange. They're counterculture but they are culture because the CIA has created
them?
MARCUS PARKS Well let's get into it.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Interesting.
BEN KISSEL Okay, fascinating.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Ooh, accidentally again stepping onto a very cogent point.
BEN KISSEL Fascinating. I'm eating good in the neighborhood.
MARCUS PARKS Well inextricably linked to this idea is the fact that the 60s would not have had the same flavor
had it not been for LSD.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI LSD!
MARCUS PARKS And there's also no doubt that LSD was introduced to and proliferated throughout America by
the CIA.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And as we will see as we go further in the episode, there are many notable figures in history,
quote unquote "notable figures of history" that helped spread this acid throughout all of
society that again, which is kind of funny, every single time any one of those people had acid, it
came directly from the CIA.
BEN KISSEL That must be the good stuff.
MARCUS PARKS Born in sunshine, my friend. And taking it even further a little bit in the No Dogs territory, if
you don't have acid, you don't have The Stooges. And if you don't have The Stooges, then you
don't have punk. And if you don't have punk, then the whole of modern Western civilization
looks entirely different.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, what would have Johnny Ramone been? Do you think he would just be a circus geek?
MARCUS PARKS He would have been a guy in an apartment in Queens until he died.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cool.
MARCUS PARKS Basically, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's the dream.
MARCUS PARKS The pipeline of LSD from the CIA to the American public is a curious one. From Friday night LSD
parties held at the home of CIA operative Harold Abramson in Long Island, acid first leaked
into high society and celebrity circles.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Fucking Harold Abramson is a shithead too, he's another old school villain.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Well he was one of the guys that was involved in the death of Frank Olson.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Surprisingly the first celebrity to speak out about the benefits of LSD was actor Cary Grant.
BEN KISSEL Really?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. He said after 60 acid trips, he found a second youth and had come close to happiness for
the first time in his life.
BEN KISSEL Whoa!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'll tell you what, I thought that for a long time wearing a softer pant than wool made you gay.
But now I understand. I met with Dr. Abramson and I'll tell you what, I wore sneakers for the
very first time. And the bounce I achieved is absolutely fantastic.
BEN KISSEL Wow. We did hero of the week on this week's Side Stories was Ryan Reynolds who also said
that he's a typical guy even though he's so handsome.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Stop it! Stop it!
BEN KISSEL But can you imagine even Cary Grant, maybe he didn't feel as if he was so special.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That was back in the day.
BEN KISSEL That's Cary Grant, I mean he's an icon!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cary Grant looked like a catcher's mitt at 25 years old, he was beaten with a spoon-
BEN KISSEL No, Cary Grant was super charming! He's beautiful!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He killed people in WWII. He had a lot of shit going on. Cary Grant was like an actual man.
BEN KISSEL He was a hunk.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Ryan Reynolds is a model that improvs.
BEN KISSEL Oh my God, the jealousy again, you went the Zebrowski.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I have never met such a beautiful woman as when I met that Ryan Reynolds. They just make
men different now. I am so glad I got in that time machine because the men are as soft as the
women.
MARCUS PARKS Well at the same time, LSD was also being distributed to volunteers at hospitals, clinics, and
universities in experiments secretly funded by the CIA's MK Ultra program. See while some of
these experiments were undoubtedly dangerous and in some cases deadly, others were
mellow and produced mind expanding, highly desirable highs for the subjects involved.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, dog.
MARCUS PARKS One example was novelist Ken Kesey who volunteered for an LSD study at the Menlo Park
Veterans Hospital. He loved the LSD experience so much that he kept returning to participate
again and again, as often as possible.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's like me with the samples at Costco back in the day.
BEN KISSEL Exactly. That is so funny.
MARCUS PARKS And when that wasn't enough, he got a job at the hospital where the experiments were being
done as a night attendant so he could steal more acid.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI At some point you feel like even the CIA has got to be like, 'Alright, you like this too much,
okay. We've already gotten the results that we need from you, Mr. Kesey.' Meanwhile he's just
like, 'Man, we gotta all live in a fucking kaleidoscope!' Seriously? Can we send him at Castro?
Can we use his harlequin powers to disrupt all communism?
MARCUS PARKS Well they could even use that as further research, just writing down 'subject loves acid'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I feel like that was like 40% of the time though when it wasn't absolutely terrifying.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because once you get on the board, like once you do it the one time, I bet you the first time
might have been kind of scary but then in the middle of it you're like, 'Oh this is kind of fun.'
And so I bet you two or three times in you're like, 'I fucking got this on pat, doing acid is my
new job.'
BEN KISSEL All right.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And as it turned out, the new perspective given to Kesey by regular trips combined with
his experience working as a night attendant at the hospital added up to his groundbreaking
novel 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cool.
BEN KISSEL Wow, so the CIA gave us 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'. Wow.
MARCUS PARKS And once Kesey had a steady supply of acid, he started throwing the so-called acid tests for
musicians, poets, and Hell's Angels bikers who Were all hanging out at his house.
BEN KISSEL Oh man, I don't know if I like that combination of people getting together all tripping, thinking
one person is now a turkey, another person's a dinosaur. I don't like the Hell's Angels tripping
balls to be honest.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I would put it this way, right. I feel like this scene, this time period with all the acid in this kind
of various worlds of different countercultures, of different mindsets all meeting up together,
it's very similar to what we see on the internet these days where it's neutral. It is neither good
nor bad. The thing about these things, if you read anything about the scene is that it could get
dark real fucking fast.
BEN KISSEL I can imagine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because it's also accelerated by the constant use of acid which at this time is stronger than
anything we get. We'll never see this type of CIA acid in our lives which is sad. I wish we could,
I want some.
BEN KISSEL Wow. I wonder if we can get some.
MARCUS PARKS Maybe. But the Hells Angels were actually a much larger part of the early 60s scene than it's
really made out to be.
BEN KISSEL Oh yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Especially at the very beginning. I mean read fucking Hunter S. Thompson's 'Hell's Angels' for a
harrowing read but very fun.
BEN KISSEL I'm just happy he survived because it sounds like he was about to die.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They beat the fuck out of him. They almost they almost beat him to death. Hell's Angels are
really interesting. We were talking about one day we might cover them but it's they're weird.
MARCUS PARKS It's just rape. It's just all rape.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS That's why we didn't cover the Hell's Angels, we tried.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But the one percenters, what they used to call themselves, they were true, just like the
hippies, true counterculture people trying to leave society behind, trying to create their own
society.
MARCUS PARKS Totally.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And again in an anarchic system while you do believe in the utopian ideals of humankind, that
we would take care of each other, but it's also sometimes the strongest are the ones who take
charge.
BEN KISSEL And you always know a Hell's Angel because the inner thigh, it's all full of rashes from people's
beards because they get blown by other Hell's Angels.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You're gonna get the shit beat out of you. They're still around.
BEN KISSEL They are in New York and they are dead.
MARCUS PARKS Actually they closed down their clubhouse in the East Village, yeah.
BEN KISSEL What?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, they closed it down like 3 years ago.
BEN KISSEL It was the guy who (raspy voice) he talked like this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, I remember him.
BEN KISSEL He was just always outside. I mean he was done doing all the horrible stuff because he could
barely breathe anymore. Emphysema is very real.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Hell's Angels, please write in sidestorieslpotl@gmail.com. Is there now a fatwa against Ben
Kissel?
BEN KISSEL They brag about blowing each other!
MARCUS PARKS Well as far as the CIA's further influence on the counterculture goes, in 1964 novelist Ken
Kesey bought a bus, gave it the name of Further and traveled the country with what he called
his Merry Pranksters, giving out LSD to people around America.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Sweet.
MARCUS PARKS The chronicles of this trip resulted in the revolutionary book by Tom Wolfe, 'The Electric Kool-
Aid Acid Test'.
BEN KISSEL Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's a very divisive book. I read it twice. I read it once when I was 16 and I was like this is the
single best thing, this is my bible, this is the thing that means so much to me. It's that book and
obviously Hunter S. Thompson's 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas', that meant so much to me.
And then rereading it again at like 30 and I was like man, this must have sucked. This whole
bus ride must have been so fucking annoying, everybody screaming and smelling.
BEN KISSEL I gotta go to the bathroom! I'm going to the bathroom!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Just total chaos and nothing constructive happening.
BEN KISSEL Well actually author Larry McMurtry who wrote The Last Picture Show and Lonesome Dove
and all that shit, and Brokeback Mountain, he was a friend of Ken Kesey and they actually
stopped off in Texas to see Larry McMurtry and he said that the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, the
bus ride fucking ruined Ken Kesey forever. He was like, 'It was a bunch of goddamn fools, is
what it was!'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That I like that. It sounds like all our one star reviews on the internet.
BEN KISSEL That sounds about right.
MARCUS PARKS Well staying in the realm of literature, poet Allen Ginsberg, author of 'Howl' and one of the
founders of the beat movement, volunteered for a CIA-funded LSD experiment at Stanford
University. But instead of being tortured, Ginsberg was made to listen to recordings of
Wagner's Tristan and Isolde as well as recitations by Gertrude Stein.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm really surprised they didn't start wearing those big long leather boots.
BEN KISSEL I thought you said he wasn't tortured.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Got you, Wagner!
BEN KISSEL I'll be here all week. Yeah good job, musician.
MARCUS PARKS I don't know if that had any bearing on his NAMBLA membership but that's a story for another
time.
BEN KISSEL He was a member of NAMBLA?
MARCUS PARKS Allen Ginsberg has some pretty dark shit secreted away.
BEN KISSEL I don't like these beat men, the beat movement is just a bunch of rich kids who had too much
time to think.
MARCUS PARKS Not really. I would say there weren't rich kids but they definitely had a lot of problems. There
was a lot of problems with Burroughs and Kerouac and Ginsberg and all those guys but you
know, they were still very influential.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You want to put a little seed in your brain? You know what the original name of NAMBLA was?
BEN KISSEL What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The Babysitter's Club. So think about that when your precious little books.
BEN KISSEL I am so done with this series. Oh God.
MARCUS PARKS Well interestingly Ginsberg had no illusions about where his LSD came from but Kesey refused
for years to believe that something so beautiful could come from something so evil. It was only
after MK Ultra was exposed that Kesey finally admitted to the truth.
BEN KISSEL So did he feel like he was an unwilling pawn or was he aware that he was sending all the CIA
acid to people? Did he know where the acid was coming through?
MARCUS PARKS No, not until not until 1976.
BEN KISSEL So then he must have been like, 'Oh, I'm the asshole.'
MARCUS PARKS No, he wasn't the asshole. I mean he was taking something ugly and turning it into something
beautiful.
BEN KISSEL Well was he a useful idiot for them though?
MARCUS PARKS No, the CIA did not want this to happen at all.
BEN KISSEL Oh they didn't want this. Okay.
MARCUS PARKS No, no, no. This is an accident. The CIA did not like that this happened.
BEN KISSEL I see.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The Merry Pranksters, I do appreciate the angle that they were going for, I like the idea of
destabilizing, bringing joy to our people kind of stuck in a rut. They were all everybody's manic
pixie dream girl showing up. But the thing about a manic pixie dream girl is sometimes you end
up in jail all night following her. It's very intense.
BEN KISSEL It can be a lot, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But he did, he shifted the culture. And again it was highly accidental on the part of the CIA.
BEN KISSEL Interesting.
MARCUS PARKS Now the university researchers, like the CIA agents in MK Ultra, they found that acid trips were
super fun. And like those agents, they started distributing it to their friends. And since many of
these experiments were done on college campuses, the proliferation of acid started with
students and before they knew it, they had Purple Haze.
BEN KISSEL Sweet!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because you know what sucks is a bunch of suits in the fucking Pentagon, they put this Purple
Haze record on and eventually one guy's like, 'Disgraceful'. But then one of them's going like,
'This is fucking sweet.'
BEN KISSEL The first toe tap in the CIA. My toe is moving.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Tap, tap, tap. What is this? Subject enjoys rock'n'roll.
BEN KISSEL Whoa! It's also so ironic their whole thing is like, 'We must stop communism!' And then they
just give acid to a bunch of college kids where they're probably gonna debate communism.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Exactly. And they're going to try to actually live communal living. That was one of the biggest
fucking consequences. And the thing is that the CIA had so much acid, they had bought
$400,000 worth of acid from the the laboratory in Sweden where it was originally made. They
were the world's largest purchaser of acid.
BEN KISSEL Jeez.
MARCUS PARKS It was crazy.
BEN KISSEL That's nuts.
MARCUS PARKS Now once it was discovered that the communists had no mind control technology and once it
was obvious that the MK Ultra experiments were not going to show the intended results, the
project heads pivoted towards practical Cold War technology like tiny microphones, wiretaps,
and hidden cameras. But since these ideas were still overseen by regular LSD user Sidney
Gottlieb, some of the ideas attempted were, to put it simply, stupid. Because while we all
come up with shitty, insane ideas on psychedelics, Sidney Gottlieb had the resources to follow
through.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's what makes it amazing!
BEN KISSEL Oh god.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Think about that. You just sitting, tripping balls. Any idea you have. I want to put a gun in a
cow's asshole. Someone is there taking the notes seriously. It's fucking incredible. He could put
on a puppet show about the childhood of Hitler and everyone would be like, 'Alright, let's see
it.'
MARCUS PARKS Case in point was the so-called acoustic kitty. That's the CIA's name by the way, acoustic kitty.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They like cute things, they like cute names.
MARCUS PARKS In this project, a cat had a tiny microphone implanted into its ear canal which was connected
to a transmitter implanted at the base of the cat's skull. And it was all powered by micro
batteries.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Whoa.
MARCUS PARKS As far as why they used a cat, standard CIA surveillance devices picked up too much
background noise and Gottlieb's team hoped that the cats cochlea would naturally filter out all
that noise.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Was that the penis cover uh penis cover? The cochlea.
BEN KISSEL The cochlea.
MARCUS PARKS Huh? The penis cover? It's the thing in your ear with all the hairs on it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh, wow, cool.
MARCUS PARKS We have them too.
BEN KISSEL We have penis covers in our ears?
MARCUS PARKS No, we don't. It's just called a cochlea.
BEN KISSEL Marcus, I can see you're agitated so let's just move on.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well cause also it feels really good when I put a Q-tip in there, is that why?
BEN KISSEL Yeah, it must be the penis cover in there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The cochlea.
MARCUS PARKS No that's it, you're right. You're fucking right, yeah.
BEN KISSEL Woo!
MARCUS PARKS yeah, you're right. Both of you. You're fucking right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's my programming.
BEN KISSEL Very good work.
MARCUS PARKS Amazingly acoustic kitty actually worked.
BEN KISSEL Really?
MARCUS PARKS The cat survived without complications and the recordings that came through were clear. So
the CIA took the cat to the field to test it. But predictably the CIA wasn't busting at the seams
with animal trainers, so they couldn't get the cat to follow commands and it just sort of
wandered off because that's what cats do.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, cats are not soldiers.
BEN KISSEL There is a large conspiracy that John, the owner of Garfield, was a CIA agent. And then you
wonder was Garfield not just a spy?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah, of course. Because Garfield could fucking talk or at least mentally, I guess telepathy.
BEN KISSEL Telepathy.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And so John obviously was using that for some way, shape, or form.
MARCUS PARKS It wasn't telepathy cause he wasn't conveying the thoughts to John, he was just thinking.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They talked.
BEN KISSEL John understood Garfield. Well how would he know that he wanted lasagna?
MARCUS PARKS Because he fed him lasagna once. If I'm going to go into Garfield lore, I would imagine it's
because John left out some lasagna once and Garfield went up and ate it because John is a
fucking disgusting bachelor. And so since he saw how much fucking Garfield loves the lasagna,
he just kept giving him lasagna because John doesn't know how to take care of a cat.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI John and Garfield could talk!
BEN KISSEL John and Garfield did talk, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They can talk!
MARCUS PARKS I'm not fucking budging on this one.
BEN KISSEL How did John know that Nermal was always in the box for Abu Dhabi?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Odie can't talk!
BEN KISSEL Odie is a dog.
MARCUS PARKS Well because the cat just fucking wandered off, Project Acoustic Kitty was ended.
BEN KISSEL That was it?
MARCUS PARKS Not because the technology didn't work but because the application was incompatible with
the animal's nature, which I think is the perfect analog to the MK Ultra program at large.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But guess what, fucker? What if I told you both that that's a smokescreen for what they were
really working on.
BEN KISSEL What were they working on?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI All right, you want to get into it?
MARCUS PARKS Fucking everything's a goddamn smokescreen.
BEN KISSEL It could be!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Might as well be a fucking wall there's so much smoke everywhere!
BEN KISSEL Alright, put your gas mask on. What's it a smokescreen for?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So now that we've been reading the material for 2.5 months, right, I thought that I was at the
edge of it. I was reading this book called 'How The Illuminati Created an Undetectable, Total
Mind-Controlled Slave'. It's a really long title.
BEN KISSEL That book is so thick.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's so thick. You're looking at I have it, I have it here in my hand.
BEN KISSEL I see it, yes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Do you hear how big this is?
BEN KISSEL It is a textbook that makes you dumber.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI By far.
MARCUS PARKS And how many typos are just on the cover?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well it says that it is filled with 'referances' that should be read with concert. But this is written
by Cisco wheeler and Fritz Springmeier but he references a book by Walter Bauer called
'Operation Mind Control' that actually took everything deeper than what he was saying. But
there is stuff to back this up. There is a whole arm of MK Ultra that was working on a thing, it
was working on a technique called RHICEDOM which stands for radio hypnotic intracerebral
control, electronic dissolution of memory.
BEN KISSEL Oh my god. Usually acronyms make another word.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, no. This is specifically to be difficult. So this goes deep into JFK lore and Sirhan Sirhan. But
the idea that how Lee Harvey Oswald was controlled, one of the more arcane conspiracy
theories is that when he was in the hospital, I forget where it was, I wanna say it was in Russia.
They had stuck an implant, a little radio thing up into his nose, up close to his brain. They also
said the same thing happened to Sirhan Sirhan, where they put up a little radio thing up in the
top of his nasal cavity. And what it would do, it would send messages to the back of his brain
that would make them feel emotions, uncontrollable emotions that would allow them to then
murder indiscriminately.
BEN KISSEL Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And then you could basically turn it on and Lee Harvey Oswald's like, 'I must kill the president!
I ain't no small potatoes.'
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He goes up there, right, he goes to shoot the president and then it shuts off and then he's just
this wandering dude walking around. Now obviously that sounds insane, that sounds like
something somebody would say at a bus stop, right.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, especially considering how if you're using this sort of radio technology to make,
extremely intense emotions real then it would be pretty crazy for Lee Harvey Oswald to pull
off such an insanely difficult shot while being tickled in his brain.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He was hypnotized as well. He was hypnotized and trained as well.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But this is really interesting. So during the Senate hearings where they were talking about the
revelations of MK Ultra, they asked Sidney Gottlieb about this technology and at some point
they said, 'Did you do anything with radio transmission and hypnosis?' And Gottlieb said, "My
answer is no." And then they're like, 'Well none whatsoever?' And he's like, "Well okay, I'm
trying to be responsive to the terms that you use. Okay, so if I remember it, there was like a
current interest, it's kind of a running interest like all the time." This is the word for word what
he said. "All the time of what affects people standing in the field of radio energy have. And it
could easily be in there somewhere, one of my many projects, that someone was trying to see
if you could hypnotize someone easier if he was standing in a radio beam. And honestly that
would seem like a reasonable piece of research to do."
BEN KISSEL Wow.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, I know exactly what he's talking about. He's talking about the radio telemetry
experiments happening at Dr. Ewen Cameron's lab up in Canada at Ravenscrag Mansion. That
was actually the brainchild of, remember the the cockney assistant who would tell the bad
jokes and do the Groucho Marx impersonations?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The funny guy.
BEN KISSEL That was his pet project. That guy by the way had absolutely no medical training whatsoever,
nor did he have any psychological training whatsoever, nor did he have any scientific
knowledge. He was just a guy trying whatever the fuck he could because he had permission to
do so.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And that made him a fresh-faced doctor.
BEN KISSEL He thought outside the bun. And that's really what it's all about, yo quiero Taco Bell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's what this whole series is about.
BEN KISSEL Indeed.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Well because the program was producing no practical results in the field of mind control,
Sidney Gottlieb began losing faith in MK Ultra by 1960. In a redacted memo written that year,
Gottlieb admitted that no effective truth serum was known to exist and other CIA officers
admitted that the possibility of creating a so-called Manchurian candidate is a total
psychological impossibility.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Or is that a double blind?
BEN KISSEL The only truth serum that exists and has always existed, boobies.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh, boobies will make you do a lot of things. But I'll lie too at boobies. But then eventually
boobies get the real out of you.
BEN KISSEL Boobies know. They really do.
MARCUS PARKS Well therefore experiments with LSD, electroshock, and sensory deprivation all lost funding. If
only because while Gottlieb had discovered how to wipe a human's identity, he had not
figured out how to embed a new personality to replace what had been deleted. Overall Sidney
Gottlieb had wasted a decade destroying thousands of lives and spending millions in taxpayer
dollars on 149 MK Ultra subprojects and not one achieved any of the goals that had been set
forth as far back as Project Bluebird. But just because mind control proved to be a bust, that
didn't mean that some of the knowledge gained by MK Ultra was not put into use by the CIA,
specifically MK Ultra's practical legacy was in the field of interrogation.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It changed the fucking game of interrogation. Because it used to be truly the old school days,
nothing had changed since the inquisition. You're supposed to just hang a guy upside down,
beat his feet, fucking waterboard him, you're supposed to do all this type of shit.
BEN KISSEL There's this one dude who tickled the ribs for the first time. There was one dude who tickled
someone's ribs and they're like, 'You're the greatest tickler of ribs of all time, that man has
never giggled like that before. He's telling us everything!'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI (giggling) Stop it!
MARCUS PARKS So in 1962, a Soviet intelligence officer named Yuri Nosenko defected to the United States. But
the CIA counterintelligence officer at the time, James Jesus Angleton, who also was involved in
MK Ultra in kind of a sideways manner, suspected that Nosenko was defecting as a double
agent. So Angleton ordered agents to keep Nosenko in captivity at a black site in Maryland for
interrogation, ie torture.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, no, it's just a very forceful conversation.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, my goodness.
MARCUS PARKS Over a period of three years, almost every MK Ultra tactic from sensory deprivation to LSD
dosing was tried on Nosenko, including 1277 straight days locked in solitary confinement.
BEN KISSEL Oh my goodness. Well it turns out he just loves America, he loves freedom. So we gotta stop
torturing him I guess.
MARCUS PARKS Well by the end of it the CIA concluded that Nosenko was telling the truth. And they admitted
that quote "the way that he was treated went beyond the bounds of propriety or good
judgment".
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And for that we're giving ourself two demerits. Can you hear the hand slaps?
BEN KISSEL Let me see your wrist!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Ow.
BEN KISSEL Yes. Bad, bad. Well if he wasn't a double agent, he is now. I can't assume he probably doesn't
love America as much as he thought he would.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. This however did nothing to stop the CIA from using Gottlieb's tactics in the future and
his legacy lives on today in the CIA's so-called enhanced interrogation techniques which is
again torture.
BEN KISSEL Torture! War crimes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI KUBARK. Read the KUBARK interrogation manual, it's very interesting what their their ideas
are. I actually do think it could really help in job interviews.
BEN KISSEL I actually think Q*bert the video game might be a great form of torture. You just force them to
play for hours and hours.
MARCUS PARKS I love that game.
BEN KISSEL Do you really?
MARCUS PARKS I love Q*Bert.
BEN KISSEL It's too hard.
MARCUS PARKS It's wonderful. So in 1964, MK Ultra was retired and replaced with a program called MK Search
which while more conventional, still dabbled in mad scientist territory with experiments like
the monkey head switch debacle we spoke of last week.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's pure curiosity.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Sidney Gottlieb meanwhile continued on his path of practical spycraft and oversaw the
development of quite a few of the spy toys that have become hallmarks of the Cold War, like
thumb-sized pistols and key chain cameras.
BEN KISSEL Cool stuff.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But honestly especially after going to the International Spy Museum in DC, there's so many
things when you look at, especially at that museum which just seems like fucking PSYOP
Central, it's all just a massive blow job to the intelligence community, and you look at the stuff-
BEN KISSEL I mean to be fair it's their museum.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Of course, I know. Absolutely. I don't know what I was expecting but it's fun, you play all the
games.
BEN KISSEL Yes. This natural history museum is all about fucking nature and history. Where's the roller
coaster?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI What I didn't like it was just covered in child slime because it was like an interactive fun
museum so which it was just kids going like (coughing) on their hands and just wiping it all over
magnifying glasses. But that museum has all of those toys, right. It's all walls full of the spy
toys. My thing is, if you know, sidestorieslpotl@gmail.com, let me know, do they fucking use
that shit? Because I think a lot of it, it's almost a propaganda and a PSYOP on their own being
like you can't even know when you deal with the CIA what's real, what's illusion. Where they
just show all of these little toys where maybe they didn't use any of that shit.
MARCUS PARKS I think a lot of it was conceptual or at least what they have in there, a lot of it was conceptual.
But they definitely used some, like spycraft is absolutely real. Tiny little cameras.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Those Mission Impossible masks that they do use, that they fooled George W. Bush with with
that woman, the head of CIA walked in with the fucking full latex head mask and he did not
know that it was fake. He's also, you know, he was him.
MARCUS PARKS He was a brilliant, lethally clever tactician.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But still - no, not H. W.
MARCUS PARKS No, George W. Bush.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I do believe yeah, the dumb act was a bit of an act.
MARCUS PARKS It's all an act.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But when she came in it did fool him, so that is interesting.
BEN KISSEL It's very, very interesting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Fascinating.
BEN KISSEL And then of course whatever we see in the museum, obviously that's all old and no longer
needed. So god knows what the new stuff is.
MARCUS PARKS Exactly.
BEN KISSEL That Netflix series is worth watching.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI OnlyFans is a PSYOP, half those girls you talk to are working for the US government. I mean
that.
BEN KISSEL Honestly, good for them.
MARCUS PARKS Now while the CIA may have felt justified during the MK Ultra experiments because of their
fear of the communists, the discovery that the communists hadn't developed mind control
plus the realization the experiments hadn't worked, it produced a kind of post-nut clarity in
Sidney Gottlieb.
BEN KISSEL That's a great way to put it.
MARCUS PARKS While he didn't necessarily regret what he'd done, he certainly knew he'd done something
wrong. But he also knew that just so long as the right people were in power, he'd be
protected. That shield however was destroyed on June 17, 1972 with the break-in of the
Democratic National Convention's headquarters at the Watergate which as we all know
eventually resulted in the resignation of President Richard Nixon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That was when politicians felt shame.
BEN KISSEL I guess so. I think Milhous felt a little shame.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI What a fucking nerd.
MARCUS PARKS Gottlieb's team had provided false identity papers, a concealed camera, and a wig and glasses
disguise for Watergate burglars Howard Hunt and G. Gordon Liddy.
BEN KISSEL I love this Looney Tunes approach. It is also slapdash and stupid but then it's also so serious
and scary.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Every once in a while it works.
MARCUS PARKS But that wasn't what exposed Sidney Gottlieb. Instead Gottlieb drowned in the wake of
Watergate because the real consequences came not from the crime itself but the cover up
that came afterward. See Richard Nixon had asked CIA Director Richard Helms to help in the
cover up but when Helms refused, Nixon fired him. And it's quite telling that one of the first
thoughts in Helm's mind was, 'Oh shit, people are going to find out about MK Ultra.'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Especially it's like 10 years later too.
BEN KISSEL Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's like a thought in the back of your head just being like oh it's fine, we've got this on
lockdown, no one's going to find out about MK Ultra. And then you're like what if people find
out about MK Ultra? Oh fucking shit!
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And he pretty much figured the next CIA director may not be as understanding of MK
Ultra as I am because all of these guys thought about it in the context of the Cold War, that we
did what we thought was necessary at the time. And even Gottlieb himself said that it was
distasteful, it was unpleasant, I didn't enjoy doing it but I was forced to do it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah he's full of shit. He's full of fucking shit, dude.
BEN KISSEL Oh okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He loved every minute of it. That's actually, I kind of feel the opposite about him. I don't think
he regretted it for a second but he had to act as if he did.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. So on his way out, Helms ordered the destruction of all MK Ultra records and by the
beginning of 1973, 7 boxes of MK Ultra documents had been shredded and Sidney Gottlieb
shredded most of his personal records as well.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's gotta be kind of fun.
MARCUS PARKS Oh yeah, just shredding all these documents, doing it real fast like the fucking cops are on their
way.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well the CIA now has the burn bowls right, where you can go and just burn everything. I think
it'd be time for a nice fireside chat with your family. Being like, 'Bonfire night!' And they're like,
'It's July.' And you're like, 'We're having a bonfire night!'
BEN KISSEL It's bonfire night.
MARCUS PARKS Well with his protector at the top gone, Sidney Gottlieb was pushed out of the Technical
Services Division, probably because acid-headed fantasies had gone out of vogue and the CIA
was kind of pissed about the whole LSD-inspired counterculture thing.
BEN KISSEL Right, yeah. It seemed like it blew up in their faces.
MARCUS PARKS So Gottlieb retired from the CIA in June of 1973 after being awarded the Distinguished
Intelligence Medal.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Whatever.
BEN KISSEL Oh wow.
MARCUS PARKS Now this period of time was a bit of an awakening for America because Americans were being
made aware of a smattering of abuses of power by the government, from Watergate to the
cover up of the massacre at Mỹ Lai to the MK Ultra adjacent program Operation Chaos.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It was Operation Chaos which was domestic spy program, that's where it started, the idea of
like looking into left-leaning groups in America, spying on american people, musicians. It was
kind of famous like John Lennon had a file, Chuck Berry had a file but it turns out he filed that
in the toilet. Got him!
BEN KISSEL Whoa! Yeah, Chuck Berry maybe needed a file of some sort because of the cameras in the
bathrooms.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah it turned out he was a bit nefarious. But there is the other side of it cause there was an
MK Ultra side of it where they were still doing some loose LSD experiments for various types of
information. And during the end of all of this, during the late 60sMARCUS
PARKS Yeah, late 60s. '67 to '69.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes. And so this is where we'll touch on the idea of where Charles Manson comes into all of
this, where we need to maybe do a whole episode on it. We did a segment in our live show a
while ago before it became real. thanks to 'Chaos', Tom O'Neill's book.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And this is not the conspiracy bullshit, this is very real. Charles Manson's involved in this.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Not to fully spoil it but this is kind of the crux of it is how somebody like Charles Manson got
involved and kind of what Tom O'Neill discovered, which is really interesting. So Manson's
parole officer, who was this dude named Roger Smith, He was a part of a federally funded
group that was researching LSD and drug use amongst the San Francisco population.
Specifically anybody living any kind of woo-woo lifestyle. They loved it. They opened up a clinic
called the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic that basically just gave out free acid to a bunch
of people.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And then what they would do is they'd come back, they would ask them how their experience
was or people would go and live with some of the people they were giving acid to which led to
a report written on the Manson family before they were the quote unquote "Manson family"
called 'The group marriage commune: a case study'. Because the Manson family coming to get
free acid and Manson would show up with all these chicks, right. And some of these chicks
might have been used in some form of version of Midnight Climax that was happening at the
time, right. These girls were all kind of all on acid, they were also doing various levels of sex
work.
MARCUS PARKS Well Operation Midnight Climax had been done, those safe houses had been closed since
1966.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because also what's interesting is that Jolly West was a part of this whole thing too, giving
Manson acid and then the unmooring him from reality essentially and kind of pushing him
towards like, you should start your own group, you should go out there and do that.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And Jolly West is really interesting because I didn't know he denied being a part of MK Ultra up
until his death where he was like, 'That was not me, that was not me.'
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, that was the guy that filled the elephant full of acid. The elephant that shat itself and
then had a seizure and then died. That was Jolly West.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yes.
BEN KISSEL Yeah. That wasn't a good experiment. So Charles Manson, he really is an American creation.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He really is.
MARCUS PARKS In every aspect, in every way.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because they kind of let him go. But where you see the conspiracy thing and then the hook is is
that you see that during this time period from '67 to '69, Charles Manson is arrested several
times for various crimes and he is never put all the way through the process, which is really
interesting, he keeps getting let go. Because up to this point, Manson spent most of his life in
and out of jail. It would not seem to be a problem to have someone whose rap sheet is that
long, just pop him right back in jail, right.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Why the fuss? But they would keep releasing him. And also it seems that the CIA themselves
and members of the CIA and his parole officer allowed him to travel to Los Angeles where he
set up shop, where the Manson family became the Manson family that we know, and because
they looked the other way. Because a part of it is about like, 'Let's see what happens here'. But
then we don't know because did he actually get the full MK Ultra treatment? Was he getting
hypnosis? Was he getting all that kind of shit?
BEN KISSEL I don't think you can hypnotize Charles Manson.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He's like, 'I am hypnotism.' But the idea of watching the acid spread down the coast of
California thanks to the Manson family is really interesting. You should read 'Chaos' by Tom
O'Neil.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah it's on my list definitely. Well the thing is about the Manson family, the kind of acid that
they were using was orange sunshine which was known to be government acid. So it's quite
possible if not definite that the Manson family was getting their acid from the government.
Not necessarily the CIA but definitely government agents.
BEN KISSEL All right. Finally the government does something good for the people.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well no, not really.
MARCUS PARKS It resulted in the murders, the Tate-LaBianca murders.
BEN KISSEL Not for them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And then that's two, right. Now we got Unabomber and Manson. Which you can see why
things like 'Programmed to Kill' have a thing to stand on because you say like well look, they
did all this shit. But again if you're listening to Henry Lee Lucas and you think he's telling the
truth, you're a fucking moron.
MARCUS PARKS You're an absolute fucking moron if you think Henry lee Lucas is telling the truth about fucking
anything.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Anything.
BEN KISSEL All right.
MARCUS PARKS So with the exposure of Operation Chaos, President Gerald Ford formed a committee to
investigate the CIA's activities on US soil. That was called the Rockefeller Commission, so
named because it was headed by Gerald Ford's Vice President Nelson Rockefeller.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Boo!
BEN KISSEL He's got a big gas tomb. I went to his grave site once.
MARCUS PARKS Where?
BEN KISSEL It's in Sleepy Hollow.
MARCUS PARKS No shit.
BEN KISSEL Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Now while the Rockefeller Commission was largely toothless and didn't mention MK Ultra by
name, it did discover that the CIA had run tests of potentially dangerous drugs on
unsuspecting American citizens. It also mentioned the death of Frank Olson, the agent who
supposedly committed suicide by jumping out of a hotel window but was in all probability
murdered by the CIA after Sidney Gottlieb dosed him. This opened the CIA to lawsuits by
Olson's family but the whole thing was eventually kiboshed, you're gonna love this, by Ford's
Chief of Staff, Donald Rumsfeld.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yay!
BEN KISSEL Oh thank you, Rumsfeld.
MARCUS PARKS And working in conjunction with his deputy, Dick Cheney.
BEN KISSEL Two of the most dangerous Americans that have ever lived, Donald Rumsfeld is not cute, Steve
Carell should have never played him in that movie Vice, that movie made Dick Cheney seem
like he's not a war criminal and he is. And 'The Unknown Known', that Rumsfeld documentary,
give it a watch. It is fascinating.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Listen to Slow Burn, the podcast that I've also been listening to about what it took to get us to
invade Iraq in 2003 is also fucked up.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL You can believe about 4% of what he says. It's unbelievable.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Well because Rumsfeld and Cheney stepped in, there was no lawsuit and the family had
to make do with a $750,000 payoff. But after the Rockefeller Commission was deemed
insufficient to explore the CIA's crimes, more committees were formed to get to the bottom of
it and eventually they got to Sidney Gottlieb. Gottlieb agreed to testify to a committee but
only in exchange for full immunity. And while he answered almost every question with all the
clarity of a magic eight ballHENRY
ZEBROWSKI You should have heard a little bit of that, a little snippet of that because he did a lot of like,
'Depends on your meaning of the term sitting down. What do you mean by sitting down?'
MARCUS PARKS It did come out that he illegally destroyed CIA files. These of course were the MK Ultra files but
since Gottlieb had secured immunity before testimony, nothing happened.
BEN KISSEL That is one clever way to do it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah.
MARCUS PARKS But that wasn't the end of the investigation nor was Gottlieb scot-free. In 1977 Jimmy carter
appointed a man named Stansfield Turner as director of the CIA with the mandate to bring
transparency to this obviously corrupt and dangerous organization.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That poor, poor peanut farmer. He saw a UFO and he thought he knew it all. He thought he
could really get the cat by the tail and it sounds like when you are a soft spoken little tiny man,
you're a tiny man who smoked weed on the roof with Willie Nelson, no one really listens to
you and you don't do anything.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, didn't seem to be that effective. But it was such a wonderful time of innocence in a
sense.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He's like, 'We're gonna fix this.'
BEN KISSEL Now we have Nancy Pelosi who is like, 'Of course we can have ties to Wall Street and of course
we can invest, we're still civilians.'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's fucking garbage.
BEN KISSEL Of course it's a total compromise against any common interest for the public good. But Jimmy
Carter gave up his peanut farm. When he became president he said, 'I don't want to have any
conflict of interest.' So he gave up his cute peanut farm and now that just sounds-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So dumb.
BEN KISSEL But it's so sweet!
MARCUS PARKS So quaint. He didn't even tell his brother Billy to stop selling Billy Beer. And that was and that
was a huge black mark on Jimmy Carter's reputation, that there was this drunk asshole from
Georgia walking around talking about how much he loved Billy Beer. Going off that and the
human experimentation trials first exposed by the Rockefeller Commission, an author named
John Marks filed a Freedom of Information Act request and obtained all of the MK Ultra files
that had escaped destruction. The documents were released at a press conference and Sidney
Gottlieb was again summoned. However he again secured immunity and again dodged the
most important questions with answers like-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I can't remember. "My remembrance is not that clear." "I'm a little hazy by now."
BEN KISSEL It sounds like it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well yeah cause he was also laced with acid!
MARCUS PARKS Those are direct quote by the way, "I'm a little hazy." So in 1979, using what information he
had available, John Marks published 'The Search for the Manchurian Candidate', blowing the
lid off MK Ultra and providing fodder for conspiracy theorists for years to come. Gottlieb
meanwhile retired to a quiet life and refused to talk about MK Ultra to anyone. As the years
went by however, MK Ultra victims began filing lawsuits against Gottlieb, including inmates
who'd been subjected to LSD testing and patients who had been involved in Ewen Cameron's
psychic driving experiments.
BEN KISSEL I can just see him in the corner eating a pastrami on rye and just looking out the window and
then everyone's like, 'I wonder what he's thinking about.'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, he's just watching the trails. He's just enjoying the flashbacks.
MARCUS PARKS It's speculated that as a result of his constant legal battles, Gottlieb may have committed
suicide on March 7th, 1999, a company man to the end who died rather than reveal his
secrets. His official cause of death however is a long suffering heart condition. But considering
Gottlieb's vast knowledge of undetectable poisons, it isn't far-fetched to think that his last
covert victim may have been himself.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's finally time to have the final meal I always would expect: Arby's. And he's just pouring
poison into the horsey sauce.
BEN KISSEL You tell me horsey sauce isn't a fricking PSYOP, dude. That changed the game.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah dude, fucking hot white. Spicy white, that's what I got to go for, man.
BEN KISSEL But again there is a massive kabal against good food in this country, we've talked about it
before, factory farms are totally fucking us over. And Arby's has gone downhill because of it.
MARCUS PARKS Yep, yep. All the bread tastes like fucking cardboard now.
BEN KISSEL I don't know what happened.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm just glad to see that your time now away from Arby's has gotten so far that you can start to
admit these things and that you can finally start to see with clarity. Your eyes can be open to
the Arby's myth.
BEN KISSEL I know. It was a pretty hot new kid on the block. It's definitely not anymore.
MARCUS PARKS Now famously Bill Clinton somewhat apologized for human experimentation in 1995.
BEN KISSEL Post-nut clarity.
MARCUS PARKS Although contrary to popular belief, MK Ultra was not a part of the apology at all.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I tell you what, there's sometimes when you're looking at someone just right and a woman
becomes an ashtray.
BEN KISSEL Oh my god, Darrell Hammond had joined the show.
MARCUS PARKS Oh wow.
BEN KISSEL You're covered in stains and you're hammered.
MARCUS PARKS Rather the apology concerned human radiation experiments. But if you replace-
BEN KISSEL Oh my god, you know our country is fucked when we're like, 'All right, we just got to make a
blanket apology for human radiation experiments. Okay.'
HENRY ZEBROWSKI All right, that one's done.
BEN KISSEL That one's done. Boom, check.
MARCUS PARKS But if you replace the words 'human radiation experiments' with 'MK Ultra experiments', every
single statement he made about what was done tracks perfectly.
BEN KISSEL Wow.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah cause if you want to have a fun little depressing Sunday, you should look up the Tulane
experiments on radiation on mentally handicapped people.
BEN KISSEL Oh that's horrible.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And it ain't nice because I tell you what, they don't turn into the Hulk.
MARCUS PARKS No.
BEN KISSEL No, that's so sad.
MARCUS PARKS They put uranium in their breakfast cereal.
BEN KISSEL Jesus. For what?!
MARCUS PARKS To see what would happen.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Curious!
BEN KISSEL What do you think is gonna happen?
MARCUS PARKS Well as far as why Clinton chose that moment to apologize, we looked into the possibility that
it could have been a distraction for one of Clinton's many scandals.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I gotta apologize for something.
BEN KISSEL Apologize for not killing Osama bin Laden.
MARCUS PARKS But ultimately nothing matched up. In the end, this apology largely mattered only to the
families of the victims and conspiracy theorists as further confirmation that America does
shady shit. The CIA's MK Ultra Work had, as we said, a legacy of torture that last present day,
specifically in the CIA's so-called enhanced interrogation techniques that became such a point
of contention during the war on terror. And I say that now realizing that that is not necessarily
present day, that was almost 15 years ago.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Wow.
BEN KISSEL We are old, bro.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI We're getting old as fuck.
BEN KISSEL You can start drinking if you were born in the year 2000.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I don't wanna fucking hear about it. I don't wanna hear about it.
MARCUS PARKS But it's arguable that MK Ultra's biggest impact over the decades has been felt most in
conspiracy theory because one could argue that QAnon would not have gained as much
traction if its leaders didn't have MK Ultra as a jumping off point.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Now we know that every president's a murderer, right? We know every king, anybody that has
any sort of place anywhere. Every government kills people and does nefarious shit. The thing
about MK Ultra that was very specific is the fact that it really showed wanton absolute no
rules, like fuck the American people, fuck you, we're going to do whatever we want because
we know what's best for you. And the thing is that what that does is create a really fun
platform for them to say anything then could have happened within those 149 subprojects of
MK Ultra. Because they're like well if anything held then now we can just stick in a new theory
because that's number 147. Like if you look at all the conspiracy theory websites we go
through, you really have to sift through what was real and what was not and also straight up
understand well if 7 boxes of MK Ultra documents were destroyed, maybe the proof for these
other ones are gone and maybe that one guy, Randy247 on YouTube, he knows.
BEN KISSEL He knows, yes. I always catch myself with conspiracy as soon as they think the government is
too competent I'm like yeah, you're probably making that up.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, yeah.
BEN KISSEL Because that's the problem.
MARCUS PARKS Remember guys, it's VEEP. That's what government is.
BEN KISSEL It really is.
MARCUS PARKS It's VEEP.
BEN KISSEL Fantastic show.
MARCUS PARKS One of my favorites. Well long before all those dickheads created QAnon as a joke that got
way out of hand and long before Russia co-opted the idea of satanic democrats to cause mass
chaos, division, and confusion, there was a little conspiracy theory born out of MK Ultra called
Project Monarch.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And again if you were a member of Project Monarch, you're gonna want to shut off the
podcast right now. First of all, shut off the podcast and you're going to want to go get a shvitz.
Go to a sauna.
MARCUS PARKS Cause you deserve it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Seriously, take care of yourself.
BEN KISSEL They must be exhausted.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well cause the problem is that some of the secrets we're about to reveal right now might
make you kill your family.
BEN KISSEL Oh no!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But I'm gonna say this right now, straight up, never kill a podcaster.
MARCUS PARKS Never.
BEN KISSEL Okay! Wow, really great work.
MARCUS PARKS Holy shit, dude. What if that's a fucking activation phrase though?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Fuck!
BEN KISSEL Oh man.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Fuck! I hope it's not one of these because I got a whole list of activation phrases right here.
BEN KISSEL What are they?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I got a couple of good ones. I got stuff like 'turn your genie free, pop a cork'.
BEN KISSEL That just activated me to drink wine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Let's continue. I'm gonna do more, there's more activation demands. We'll get into it.
MARCUS PARKS All right. Now the claims made by people who say they were part of Project Monarch are to
say the least a bit unhinged and they're far more graphic than the worst 'Hillary Clinton drinks
the adrenochrome of children' conspiracy theories.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI What do you mean?
MARCUS PARKS If you think spirit cooking is something, this shit gets dark.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI How the Illuminati Created an Undetectable Total Mind Control Slave' is filled with some of the
worst passages I've read in quite a bit of time. Because you know what it is? It's all about, it's
the big shit rooms.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's the stuff where like kids are supposed to be dumped into shit. We'll get into it, let me know
when you want me to go.
MARCUS PARKS Sure.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Just fucking let me know when I can get out of this fucking - I'm ready to go, I'm a horse at the
line. I want to start talking about it cause I gotta get it out of me. I gotta get this out of me.
BEN KISSEL Is that what happened at Woodstock '99? Was Green Day, was Limp Bizkit a trigger?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well yeah, Child Shit Room was actually on the morning.
BEN KISSEL Oh fantastic.
MARCUS PARKS Well basically Project Monarch rests on the idea that MK Ultra mind control technology
actually worked and was applied to hundreds if not thousands if not millions of innocent
people in the service of a satanic, all powerful, omniscient deep state.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI 3 million Americans and counting, the Canaanite rituals taken from the secret schools laid in.
Not only is it just hypnotism, brother. You're also getting attached to literal demons. They used
demons in the programming to help you get more hypnotized.
BEN KISSEL So wait, so the CIA Has contact with demons?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They are demons! Literally are. It's not even like oh they're mean. They are actual incarnations
of spiritual demons.
BEN KISSEL Actual demons.
MARCUS PARKS Okay, so how far up did the demons go? Is everyone a demon? Like for example, is everyone
who runs for president a demon? Is Jeb Bush a demon, my friend?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI According to this book it depends on how Jewish you are.
BEN KISSEL Oh so it's just antisemitism.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, no, no, no. That's just one of the tentacles.
MARCUS PARKS Then why didn't Bernie Sanders win the presidency?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Or did he?
BEN KISSEL He didn't!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Or did he?
BEN KISSEL He didn't.
MARCUS PARKS Well involving everything from mass sex slavery to satanic ritual abuse to of course pedophilia,
Project Monarch is an old school conspiracy that imagines that every single politician above
the level of city council is a cartoonishly evil psychopath who commits heinous acts of sexual
deviance and violence for the pure sake of committing them.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And that's where they're actually correct.
MARCUS PARKS Now when I say old school, I mean that Project Monarch is a conspiracy theory with no
particular agenda. While QAnon paints the world in terms of heroes and villains, ie
Republicans and Democrats-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And has an agenda because in the very end, people are hijacking that movement in order to
destabilize our government.
MARCUS PARKS Of course.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But QAnon does have an agenda because nowadays-
MARCUS PARKS No, that's exactly what I'm saying.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They hijacked it to destabilize the government.
MARCUS PARKS Of course.
BEN KISSEL All right.
MARCUS PARKS Monarch is from a time when conspiracy saw the entirety of the government as well as
everyone in the entertainment industry as an unstoppable enemy. In other words, conspiracy
was a god of malice rather than an octopus, a concept of something so powerful that there
were no heroes, rather every single one of us was a victim whether we knew it or not and that
applied double to the people who claim to have participated in these conspiracies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well the only thing that stops you is the fucking pure power of Christ.
MARCUS PARKS Oh yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI (singing) Christ is the only one to break my programming with a little kiss down south!
BEN KISSEL I agree.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI (singing) Christ he comes and he kisses my balls. I don't think about killing the president!
BEN KISSEL Oh, well there you go. Another life saved by Jesus. The only person that is clean is Wilford
Brimley.
MARCUS PARKS You think so?
BEN KISSEL Yes because all he cared about was flax and horses and telling people-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He got out of the Hollywood machine. He moved to Wyoming.
BEN KISSEL Well but he is Hollywood, he's Wilford Brimley.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He walked away.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. However Project Monarch does share something with modern conspiracy. Both are ways
for people to make sense of a chaotic world and many times, especially with Project Monarch,
people found ways to plug their personal problems into conspiracy theories.
BEN KISSEL This explains why my wife Cathy doesn't appreciate my affair.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Seriously.
BEN KISSEL This is ridiculous.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You know what too? It's not just, you even say personal problems, I think it really is some of
the worst, as we'll see, because of the nature of Project Monarch, it really seems like a way to
explain sexual abuse that was done to you at an early age that you try to find - much like how
back in the day when we did ghost, alien, or molested ? The idea of these memories, they
could be screen memories, whatever it is that your brain sets up or what you have come to
believe or you could create a very involved fantasy world that mocks us all up. Or I will posit
people read conspiracy theories and they read about MK Ultra and then they ape it in their
activity.
BEN KISSEL Retrofit it, maybe.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This is the nuanced way, this is through the tube of anybody who could follow me, if anybody's
got the guts to follow me, that people can, I mean this is intense, group rape you dressed as
Spiderman and Bill Clinton and all this kind of shit. I really do think that they'll do this shit so
that you don't believe and that you do sound like a crazy person when it says this type of shit
and then it folds into conspiracy theory even though it did actually happen to you. Who
knows?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah but just because you're attacked by a werewolf doesn't mean that werewolves exist.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Interesting.
BEN KISSEL Unless you're in London.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah and then you're like, (British accent) You want a spot of tea? Big Ben's a bell!
BEN KISSEL There we go. Werewolves of London. Warren Zevon has a great song about some of this stuff.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Everyone knows that song.
BEN KISSEL The Envoy, though. It's called The Envoy. That's a different song that I was plugging. Cause
Warren Zevon needs the help. He's dead.
MARCUS PARKS Now out of all the unbalanced people who claim to have been a part of Project Monarch, the
most lucid by far is Cathy O'Brien. She claims to have been literally raised to be an MK Ultra
agent, in which she acted as both sex slave and message runner. In 1995 she co-authored a
book called 'TRANCE Formation of America'.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Say it correct. Trance space formation in AmeriKKKa.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS This is an off the rails account of her alleged time as a project monarch agent. This book is coauthored
by her husband Mark Phillips, who just happens to claim that he was the person who
barely rescued Cathy from the clutches of her evil masters.
BEN KISSEL It's kinda cute, they got together and wrote a book.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah but the way they got together is that he said that he had to kidnap her, tie her to a chair,
essentially waterboard her and hypnotize her until she admitted that she was a sex slave
created by the US government.
BEN KISSEL The truth about cats and dogs dating, huh?
MARCUS PARKS Now Cathy and Mark's agenda for writing this obviously false narrative is murky to say the
least. And even some fellow conspiracy theorists refer to 'TRANCE Formation of America' as at
best delusional and at worst a PSYOP in and of itself.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Get into that shit! Get into the mindset.
MARCUS PARKS Mirrors within mirrors within mirrors.
BEN KISSEL Right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Dude, bro. You fucking don't know who you are, Kissel, you don't know if you're a fucking op. I
don't know if I'm an op except I do know that I'm an op but if I'm saying I'm an op, does that
mean I am an op or am I a double double blind that's super funny about it?
MARCUS PARKS Hell yeah.
BEN KISSEL Well these are the conversations that are best had in Vegas.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI We had this conversation in Vegas.
MARCUS PARKS But no matter their intentions, Cathy and Mark concocted one of the wildest rides in
conspiracy theory history. So let's go through a few of the main plot points in their book to
give a full scope of how far people can take the MK Ultra idea.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And then I can check her story against Fritz Springmeier's manual on how to create an
undetectable total mind-controlled slave so that we can see if it holds up.
BEN KISSEL Okay, well we got real scrutiny here.
MARCUS PARKS But as a side note, there's almost no doubt that Cathy O'Brien went through some sort of
immense trauma at some point in her life and for that she has our sympathies.
BEN KISSEL Right.
MARCUS PARKS But the point of covering her claims is that her outlet for dealing with that trauma is extremely
harmful to other people. So while we can be sympathetic, we cannot justify how much
damage she's done in helping to build the base for conspiracy theories like QAnon that
damaged the very foundations of our democracy.
BEN KISSEL Like David Icke who ran for office and didn't win and then it's like I'm really sorry and then he
had to go and believe everyone was a reptile.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And the best part about MK Ultra, the best part about Project Monarch honestly and the worst
part of Project Monarch altogether is that straight up we didn't need that to destabilize our
democracy. We're going to do that ourselves.
BEN KISSEL Yeah!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Again, just wait it out.
BEN KISSEL Yes, wait it out. We'll do it with memes.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Memes!
BEN KISSEL It's so much easier than we all thought.
MARCUS PARKS Memes that are based on conspiracy theory.
BEN KISSEL Perfect. This is great.
MARCUS PARKS Cathy O'Brien claims that her MK Ultra programming began soon after her birth in 1957.
Graphically jumping right into it, Cathy said that her father Earl was a pedophile who
substituted his penis for her mother's nipple soon after she was born.
BEN KISSEL Ugh. Jesus.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'll tell you what though, you're not gonna get any milk out of that.
BEN KISSEL No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI When you do read this, because the idea is that the illuminati and the various families of the
illuminati, they know that in order to create a perfect mind-controlled slave they must already
be able to disassociate naturally. And what also the illuminati knows that the American Science
Foundation won't even fucking allowed to slip into the American consciousness is that
knowledge actually is transferred genetically, right.
BEN KISSEL Oh my goodness.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So what they do is various leaders of the illuminati, Aleister Crowley, George H. W. Bush's
father Vanderbilt Bush, right? These are the type of guys that got really into eastern shit, right,
the idea of meditation, smoking a lot of hashish, getting super dissociated, knowing that their
come would super be able to so dissociate, right? So they have sex with other weird trained
slaves, then they have babies, those babies are sent to the secret facility in China Lake where
they go down there and they're putting these massive airfields, these big giant cages filled
with babies, where their jobs are they are already gonna be naturally disposed to be able to
dissociate. And so then what they do is they take them and yeah they give them love for about
18 months, so they get attached to their master but then what they do is they violently hurt
them where they strip them of their clothes, they put them in a dog cage, they dip them in
shit.
BEN KISSEL What?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They literally dip them fully in shit, they make them eat shit, they make them eat blood.
BEN KISSEL That's bad.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They make them kill other babies and all that kind of shit to shatter their mind.
MARCUS PARKS They make the babies kill other babies.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes.
BEN KISSEL How did they pull off making the babies kill other babies?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They literally put a knife in a baby's hand. This is in the book.
BEN KISSEL He's holding the book, Marcus.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Look at the book!
BEN KISSEL Look at the book!
MARCUS PARKS I know, I'm looking at the book.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But they put a knife literally in a child's hand and they go, 'And you cut the baby like this,' and
then they cut open the baby's intestines.
BEN KISSEL This episode of Rugrats has really gotten dark.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's intense, man. But this is what happened to Cathy O'Brien. Because the idea is that they will
never then know anything and then you shatter their personality into a million pieces because
that's where the DID comes from, it's called reversal of message, this idea that you get love
bombed and then you're immediately tortured by the same person who love bombs you.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Oh just one second guys, my Comet delivery is here. Comet Pizza. That would be great, it's a
great pizza. Something about the way it's made.
MARCUS PARKS Oh yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI So she must have been a member of the illuminati family.
BEN KISSEL Whoa, that's a lot.
MARCUS PARKS Well Cathy said that her father's repeated sexual abuses provide the first level of mental
compartmentalization that would make her the perfect sex slave and MK Ultra agent, implying
that her father had intentionally abused her to later sell her to the US government. But that
doesn't necessarily match up because she said that she was abused in her own home and not
at a gigantic silo filled with dog cages and shit.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And that's where I got your ass in a fucking cage, my friend. Because what Dr. Fritz
Springmeier, I don't know if he's a doctor-
BEN KISSEL I don't think so.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI What he says and here is that it's not just illuminati families, right. Because the illuminati
families, a lot of times those-
MARCUS PARKS Now you're negating your own.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah. No, it's not negating, it's adding on. It's adding onto.
BEN KISSEL But it feels like if you just agree with everything then you don't have to be right about
anything.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Ooh, somebody's catching on. So it's about rolling, rolling, rolling.
BEN KISSEL Like at Woodstock '99?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And so the illuminati bloodlines, right, they create the babies that will go on to program the
other babies. So their babies will grow up and be the minders of the other babies in the
system, the lower level babies.
BEN KISSEL Now I'm just thinking about the Boss Baby.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cause now we're talking about millions of babies. And this is true, millions of babies because
half these babies are getting just slaughtered in just the training part.
MARCUS PARKS Right, right. It's like the Witcher, most of them don't survive Witcher training, it's just like that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well it's cause a lot of them were just used as props, right. They're just there, they're filling the
room. The main babies are going to become the actual good slaves because that's what you're
looking for is a good trained slave. But the other ones, they mostly come from, this is from
Fritz Springmeier, liberal families that would rather have money than babies.
BEN KISSEL What is going on?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Because they pay them for the baby.
MARCUS PARKS Oh okay. So you're saying that liberals get each other pregnant, go through an entire 9
months, tell their friends that they're pregnant, show that they're pregnant, and then at the
end of it they sell the children of the illuminati and tell their friends what?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They get paid!I guess it's called I just fucking monetized my hobby, getting pregnant. That's my
hobby because I'm a liberal and I don't care about babies.
BEN KISSEL Right.
MARCUS PARKS Well what Cathy's claims that her father intentionally abused her to later sell her to the US
government, that means that one of the MK Ultra subprojects would have been to somehow
recruit specifically incestuous pedophiles then give them exact instructions on how they
should abuse their children in just the right way to make them susceptible to MK Ultra
training.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes. You are literally saying sentences from the intro of this book. That is what they said.
MARCUS PARKS And that's the thing is that I wrote that sentence to make shit like that sound really fucking
stupid.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's because you're reading it wrong. You have to cross your eyes.
BEN KISSEL Dude, that book is so, so thick, dude.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You see how earmarked it is?
BEN KISSEL It is.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I was reading this on the plane.
BEN KISSEL You shouldn't have been allowed to fly.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I put it down, I put the cover down and I just tried to open up the back of it. It was okay, I was
in first class so three other people had the same book.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, the illuminati in the first class, of course. It reminds me, I think I read a chick tract that
has this exact storyline.
MARCUS PARKS Yep. Chick tracts are definitely related to all of this shit. But in Cathy's narrative, this
assumption makes sense because she claimed that her uncle was deeply involved in air force
intelligence, the Vatican, and child pornography.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Man, very busy.
BEN KISSEL I guess.
MARCUS PARKS Consequently it was her uncle who introduced her father to Project Monarch which was
recruiting multi-generational incest-abused children with multiple personality disorder for its
genetic mind control studies.
BEN KISSEL It's just so specific.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, it is.
MARCUS PARKS Therefore once Cathy's mind had been split, she was ready for MK Ultra. See according to
Cathy and Mark's claims, the government sought out people with multiple personality disorder
because they have superhuman characteristics such as vision 44 times greater than the
average human.
BEN KISSEL 44 times greater!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, they're like cyclopes.
BEN KISSEL It really is, it's like that movie, what was it? Not Splice, I forget.
MARCUS PARKS Split?
BEN KISSEL Split.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And they also have an unusually high pain threshold which makes them both desirable
agents and desirable sex slaves.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well you're supposed to be able to hypnotize them so you can light a candle underneath their
pussy and they won't scream.
BEN KISSEL Oh my God.
MARCUS PARKS Now while Project Monarch subjects were ostensibly supposed to be MK Ultra agents, it seems
that Project Monarch was mostly used as a sex slave ring.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well that's just for the beta training because then there's also alpha training, those are just
general mind-controlled slaves. Then you have the delta training which is people that will kill,
they're actually the killer ones, like with the Manchurian candidate.
BEN KISSEL That's interesting cause you love Delta, you only fly Delta, you're obsessed with your Delta
points. That's fascinating.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, maybe there is something there.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, maybe there is something there.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I will have to kill you.
BEN KISSEL Maybe you will.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You got epsilon agents which are dogs and cats, this is true. We've got the theta which is
psychic warfare agents, they are trained to be psychic, that is completely true.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI There are the zeta slaves which are actually the worse because they are just trained to be
killed within the snuff films they make within the arms of Project Monarch in order to basically
you use that, like with now currently deepfake technology, put the face of somebody like a
Donald Trump in a video with him beheading a little girl but the little girl's real for some reason
and the other one's fake.
BEN KISSEL Alright, well there we go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yep. It's that easy.
BEN KISSEL Well this is the last episode we will ever mention it so get it all out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm so excited. I'm gonna get it out.
MARCUS PARKS As I said, while Project Monarch subjects were mostly sex slaves for apparently multiple
different reasons, Cathy said that in first grade, she remembers a quote "splash of semen"
coming from a senator named Guy Vander Jagt and Gerald Ford before he was president.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Oh my goodness.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Actually yeah, sure.
MARCUS PARKS From there her hypnosis training began with none other than Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau
from Canada. And by 13, you'll like this Ben, Cathy was in the thrallBEN
KISSEL Am I gonna like it? At what point am I supposed to start liking it?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You're gonna like this.
MARCUS PARKS Cathy was in the thrall of her next programmer and handler, Senator Robert Byrd of West
Virginia.
BEN KISSEL What a nice Klansman he is.
MARCUS PARKS D, West Virginia. Senator Byrd then exposed Cathy to the satanic ritual perversions of her
catholic school principal Father Vesbit who was named Father Fuzzbutt by some of the kids he
abused because he had a thick hairy bottom.
BEN KISSEL Oh my God. And again, there's smatterings of truth I'm sure. It's all disgusting.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, she might have been molested by a priest.
BEN KISSEL Something happened, dude.
MARCUS PARKS Something happened, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well they say half the time with these various Project Monarch officers is that they can be
literally dressed, a lot of times they see him dressed as clergy, dressed in druidic outfits,
dressed in military gear. They're kind of all over the place.
BEN KISSEL Right. Prestigious uniforms it sounds like.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes, yes.
MARCUS PARKS After that Cathy was taken to Wyoming where she played the most dangerous game with Dick
Cheney.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He did that in real life though! He already did that!
BEN KISSEL He really did. Anything criticizing Dick Cheney, I'm like there's a little truth to that.
MARCUS PARKS What about this? She said that Dick Cheney had a big hog.
BEN KISSEL I could see it, I think that I could see it being about 6 and a little barrely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh god. Ugh.
BEN KISSEL He's got that fat man's bod. Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS 6, barrely. But that's the thing is that it's 6 like a big barrel but it's really difficult to get hard.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Multicolored.
BEN KISSEL Yeah it's weird, it's kinda like Ottis Toole, coloring purplish. Disgusting.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Robert Byrd though, micropenis.
BEN KISSEL I could also believe that. Yeah, that's why they wear the robes.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. By 1977 Cathy was forced to marry a man named Wayne Cox whom she'd already seen
participate in satanic rituals.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And now this is the idea that this comes from the old world satanism. This comes from the
Egyptian Book of the Dead, all of this kind of stuff where it's ancient, ancient illuminati
practices that have been layered into the government and the government is trying to
essentially create a slave state eventually where they could totally control the entire world
using hypnotism and various radio technology.
BEN KISSEL Man.
MARCUS PARKS For what purpose?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh, you. I can't even believe he asked. I can't even believe he'd ask.
BEN KISSEL I mean he's just enquiring, enquiring minds want to know.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, I think you need to read this book before we can answer that question.
MARCUS PARKS All right, all right.
BEN KISSEL I think that book should solely be about fast food because that's what done it, all the sugar is
killing our brain.
MARCUS PARKS Well parroting the old satanic ritual abuse standard, Cathy said she was ritualistically
impregnated by her husband Wayne Cox and was forced to abort the fetuses six times. This
was all so Cox could consume his own offspring and quote "preserve others shaped in ceramic
for sale in his interstate occult body parts business".
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah dude. That tracks too because you got right here.
BEN KISSEL yeah, you're flipping through, what do you got?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Illuminati rituals are based on the most ancient mystery religions. The Rothschilds, like the
ancient Canaanite mystery rituals and use Acadian Hittite Canaanite Babylonian rituals. The
rituals from Ancient Egypt also heavily used by the illuminati, which actually does oftentimes
have many body parts in jars. You can see here this is a body part.
BEN KISSEL There's actually kind of a body part there, sure.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, I can see it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Body part jars labeled 'Ashley' because that was the person that it got taken out of because
that comes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. And that was done by a child, the drawings, as
you can see by the very nature of the artwork.
BEN KISSEL It looks like a child who wanted to sign up for art school and he sent that in as a submission
and then he immediately-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They were like, 'You know what? You can't be an artist but you would be an incredible Project
Monarch sex slave.'
BEN KISSEL No I think maybe child protective services might have a role in that.
MARCUS PARKS Well supposedly Cox would murder people by cutting off their hands with a machete in a Peter
Pan-themed ritual. Then he distributed the body parts as well as cocaine through an occult
supply network running through Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and Florida.
BEN KISSEL Wait. So if he gets pulled over by the cops, the cops are like what are these hands? And then
he's like, 'Yeah, I hope they don't find the coke.'
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, no. He shows them his fucking Project Monarch identification card and since every single
cop I'm sure is probably a part of this entire conspiracy-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI 6 out of 7.
BEN KISSEL It checks out.
MARCUS PARKS This claim of course is connected to serial killer and serial liar Henry Lee Lucas who claimed
that he and Ottis Toole worked for a satanic syndicate called the Hand of Death, which is in
turn referenced by conspiracy theorist Dave McGowan in his book 'Programmed to Kill' that
argues that almost all serial killers are a type of MK Ultra agent.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI The only thing is the beginning of 'Programmed to Kill' talks about Marc Dutroux, that we are
going to do an episode on in the future.
MARCUS PARKS Totally. Yeah, it's a fascinating story.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Who is fascinating. But this is the crux of all this, right, which is it is definite that there are
massive child pornography rings and pedophile rings that work because they literally due to
the nature of their predilections have to work in groups.
BEN KISSEL Like the foster care system.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes, the foster care system.
MARCUS PARKS And they get busted all the time. Child pronography rings get busted constantly.
BEN KISSEL But then there's honestly wonderful foster care people out there taking care of kids that are
great.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Good work saving yourself. Now Marc Dutroux was a serial killer that also happened to be
connected to a lot of these government guys and he basically said, he's a Belgian serial killer,
and this is where 'Programmed to Kill' starts. Which is basically he says, 'I was a part of a group
of guys providing kids for various fucking politicians, all of these heads of state or whatever,
and I just kind of like in my way skimmed off the top, like I just took some for me.'
BEN KISSEL Yeah man. I mean isn't this what we've been discussing with Epstein, Maxwell, this whole
thing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI There is evidence for it.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, there is evidence for it but Marc Dutroux's a fucking serial killer and again, if you believe
a serial killer, you're a fucking moron.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You can't believe them!
BEN KISSEL But what if they tell me... I do think that Ted Bundy lost his flashlight one time.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh sure.
MARCUS PARKS Well shit like that, like actual evidence where if it makes sense in a human way then yeah. But
if Henry Lee Lucas is telling you that him and Ottis Toole went to the fucking Florida everglades
where they took a boat to a gigantic satanic party, then he's probably lying.
BEN KISSEL Yeah he's lying. They were never allowed to board anything that required an ID or anything
like that.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm just saying the Marc Dutroux story is very interesting and it is one of those things again, it's
a platform for other things to be built on. And then I do believe because of the vastness of the
human imagination and also the vastness of our ability to do bad things to other people, that
anything is possible under the sun.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And if you are a fan of 'Programmed to Kill', know that he goes from Marc Dutroux to
Henry Lee Lucas' the Hand of Death and go read 'The Hand of Death' which is textbook satanic
panic bullshit that was written by a nun who used to visit Henry Lee Lucas in prison. They yes
and-ed each other into this shit for two years and then put out this stupid fucking book.
BEN KISSEL Kind of like Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Now if you can find 'The Hand of Death' it's a really fun read but it's also really dumb.
BEN KISSEL All right.
MARCUS PARKS Eventually Cathy was transferred from Senator Robert Byrd to a new mind control handler
named Alex Houston. To the public he was a country music ventriloquist.
BEN KISSEL What a great reputation to have.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You might as well just call him a pedophile.
MARCUS PARKS Admittedly he does look like the Jimmy Savile of puppets. That's his vibe. But to Cathy O'Brien
he was a CIA operative. From there Cathy was handed off to Michael Aquino, the infamous
Temple of Set founder who did actually work in the CIA PSYOP division, we know that.
Interestingly Cathy said that Aquino was the only person in the satanic government who
treated her like a human.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Weird.
BEN KISSEL Weird.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's the one?
MARCUS PARKS Ironic, no?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Wait, Michael Aquino is also in 'Programmed to Kill' because they can't get over it. Where it
just comes down to it, it just sounds like he's a fucking nerd, he's got really bad eyebrows.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, he's a nerd and fucking weirdo.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He was like Eddie Munster.
MARCUS PARKS He's a talk show guest.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He's interesting! I think again, interesting stuff.
BEN KISSEL Interesting indeed.
MARCUS PARKS But when he wasn't being nice, Aquino and Cathy's husband were carving a hideous witch's
face with silver nitrate and exacto knives onto her genitals so that when she did kegels, a face
would pop out of her vagina like a Halloween decoration.
BEN KISSEL Oh jesus. That's what happened to Henry's head in Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI In Pretty Face.
MARCUS PARKS Pretty Face, yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Wow, that is exactly what happened!
BEN KISSEL It came out of his butthole.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Honestly if you do want to carve a witch's face onto your generals with an exacto knife, we're
here for you.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL I mean...
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Show it to us.
BEN KISSEL Don't do that though.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But if you like it.
BEN KISSEL No.
MARCUS PARKS If you like it and you're doing it to yourself or if you're consenting for someone else to do it for
you.
BEN KISSEL No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI God bless.
BEN KISSEL No. I'm just gonna say let's not do that.
MARCUS PARKS Well with Michael Aquino, Robert Byrd also produced films like 'how to divide a personality'
and 'how to create a sex slave'.
BEN KISSEL Robert Byrd is also so old and racist he also produced Birth of a Nation.
MARCUS PARKS And these instructional videos were produced by who else but NASA.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, you fucking assholes! Yeah! I stood up!
BEN KISSEL Henry, you need to sit down!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, NASA's in it too! The moon is an op! I'm doing the rest of this show fucking standing,
dude.
BEN KISSEL This is the last thing we needed was NASA's involvement.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Presumably it was with the production team they had left over after they faked the
moon landing.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Kubrick was actually by that point, he was working on Clockwork Orange.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Well staying in the film world, Cathy was also introduced to Ronald Reagan who gave her
acting tips for when Cathy starred in pornography.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's important to remember Cathy, you really want to shake your head back and forth. And the
key is Cathy, you're gonna want to moan.
BEN KISSEL He was notoriously not a great actor.
MARCUS PARKS No, they always said the best thing they could say about him is that he showed up on time and
sober. Apparently Ronald Reagan wanted Cathy to call him Uncle Ronnie and he called her
Kitten because Reagan was apparently super into bestiality porn in which cats were fucked to
death.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Well yes and also Kitten is also what you call a beta slave because what you do is you hit them
with stuff, which is interesting, a couple of things that you say to a beta slave to get them to be
on you is you say, 'Ride ponies, it's time to ride ponies, it's time to play horsey.' That's another
one. '6 is sex, 7 is heaven, 8 is great, 9 you're mine.'
BEN KISSEL Oh my god, it's just so corny.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That makes them horny! Try it on your wife tonight.
BEN KISSEL It's like trying to write a valentine.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Try it on your wife. 'Red dot, spin, spin, spin, become another person.' Then you start sucking
dick.
BEN KISSEL I guess so.
MARCUS PARKS Cathy O'Brien also said that all of the men, all the politicians who abused her, all used the
phrase 'Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'.
BEN KISSEL Wow, there we go.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah. They like those terms.
BEN KISSEL Indeed.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Here come my kitten and let me pet you, purr for me now, that's a fluffy kitten, purr deep.'
BEN KISSEL What is that supposed to trigger?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Make you horny.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS So how many do they have for making you horny? Why do they not just have-
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's two pages of them. There's a lot of them.
BEN KISSEL You got one more.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Itsy bitsy boob.' That's what it says here, access code pertaining to Betty Boop programming
which actually I don't know what Betty Boop programming is. There's a certain type of female
behavior according to this.
BEN KISSEL I see.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, there's a lot of different kinds of programming. There's Betty Boop programming, there's
Wizard of Oz programming.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I can talk about the Wizard of Oz programming if you want.
MARCUS PARKS There's Peter Pan programming. Before we get to Wizard of Oz programming, let's talk about
Ronald Reagan a little bit more.
BEN KISSEL I love it, yes.
MARCUS PARKS He also contributed to Cathy's programming. And you're going to absolutely fucking adore this,
I know you will, Ben.
BEN KISSEL Another thing I'm going to adore, okay. Cause the last ne I didn't love.
MARCUS PARKS He used his well known love of jellybeans.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He weaponized jellybeans.
BEN KISSEL I hate this shit so much.
MARCUS PARKS Jelly.
BEN KISSEL Jelly. He passes out jellybeans. Is that weed? Whack-whack-whack!
MARCUS PARKS From what Cathy said, Reagan would switch her programming objectives by offering different
Jelly Belly flavors which for some reason, and I don't know why, Dick Cheney fucking hated
this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He didn't like jellybeans.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Jellybeans are divisive.
MARCUS PARKS Itsy bitsy boob.' That's what it says here, access code pertaining to Betty Boop programming
which actually I don't know what Betty Boop programming is. There's a certain type of female
behavior according to this.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI There's a lot of quotes.
BEN KISSEL I'm going to die actually.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI There's a lot of little funny things in all of this stuff cause it's all about being punny.
BEN KISSEL Why is she trying to be punny?
MARCUS PARKS She loves puns.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI She does.
BEN KISSEL Oh my god. She was abused.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI It's to show she's over it.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL I guess.
MARCUS PARKS Well eventually she came across the Clintons as all good conspiracies do.
BEN KISSEL And everything was totally fine and they were super polite.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI He just did catering!
MARCUS PARKS And she described watching Bill Clinton participate in a homosexual orgy while Hillary watched
an act of mutilation and told Cathy quote:
HENRY ZEBROWSKI "Eat me! Oh god, eat me now!"
BEN KISSEL Even a broken clock is right 6 times a day.
MARCUS PARKS I'm not even gonna take that bait.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Thank you, thank you. Good, yes. We'll move on.
MARCUS PARKS In the realm of entertainment, Cathy claimed that George H. W. Bush, presumably as the head
of the CIA, used Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood to make kids susceptible to mind control
programming.
BEN KISSEL Do not. You better leave Mr. Rogers alone.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This is the thing. The core of this whole thing, truly I think it's about saying the most horrific
thing you can think of and then be like would we lie?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Would we lie about this?
MARCUS PARKS It's perverting the ultimate good always.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Always.
BEN KISSEL And it's the same thing in New York when someone's like, 'I need $1.17 exactly to get on the
train.' The more specific obviously. They never do get on the train.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yes. Cause how could you just make it up?
BEN KISSEL How could he, it's so specific.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI How could they could just make up the three pages of songs that are used to to program MK
Ultra agents.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, what do we got?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Like Greensleeves.
BEN KISSEL What's that one?
MARCUS PARKS Greensleeves is a Christmas song, it was in the Charlie Brown Christmas, Vince Guaraldi did a
great version of it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm in love with a big blue frog! The song Crazy. (singing) Crazy, crazy for feeling so horny! And
then I'm having sex with a senator and then I'm gonna cut off his head.
BEN KISSEL I wonder if they killed that woman.
MARCUS PARKS Patsy Cline? Maybe. Yeah, fucking Hawkshaw Hawkins just got caught up in the deal.
BEN KISSEL Oh my gosh.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah. And the song The Letter where every single time the word 'baby' is said, you replace
it with 'master'.
MARCUS PARKS The Box Tops song? The one that Alex Chilton wrote when he was like 16?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yep. That was perverted as well. (singing) Gimme a ticket for an airplane, ain't got time to take
a fast train, lonely days are gone, Mama coming home, my master he wrote me a letter.
BEN KISSEL Wow, it totally works.
MARCUS PARKS Interesting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Well I mean everything from Robert Ludlum novels to ET to Star Wars all contributed to mind
control programming. George Lucas by the way, NASA operative.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Additionally, and this is perhaps the most offensive and egregious claim, Cathy O'Brien said
that in the latter days of her time in Project Monarch, she was taken to the largest mind
control slave camp in the country which was run by Merle Haggard.
BEN KISSEL You better leave Merle alone.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Hey man, you play for the audience that shows up.
BEN KISSEL That was a satire song. Okie from Muskogee was making fun of them and they're just like we
love it and then his audience just turned out to be them and he was just meh, I'm just a
musician.
MARCUS PARKS What are you going to do? They didn't make Silver Wings any less beautiful though.
BEN KISSEL No, it didn't.
MARCUS PARKS However Cathy O'Brien claims that she and her daughter were set free from Project Monarch
by her future husband Mark Phillips who maneuvered Cathy's husband into a position where
he could quote "lift them free".
BEN KISSEL Also just Cathy, before you go, could you get an autograph from Merle? I'm a huge fan.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Huge fan, huge fan.
MARCUS PARKS And also there was a daughter involved in there as well. I just didn't get into the daughter, she
also had a daughter.
BEN KISSEL I'm sure all of it's horrible, we can assume.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. And the daughter did actually exist.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But that's why even this book, even I shouldn't have read it.
BEN KISSEL You know what? I'm not for book burnings but I'm gonna burn that one.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But no, no, no, it's not because of the truths within, it's cause it's actually even dangerous for
me to read it because he said at the very beginning of this, the only people who should be
reading this book are ordained ministers that can use the power of god to shield them from
the information inside of it. Because without it, that was the warning that I actually retrofitted
for the top of the rest of the episode came from this book, where the idea that only a minister
or a man of god could possibly read all of this information and remain sane.
BEN KISSEL Alright. Yes because of course all ministers are by nature sane.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah.
MARCUS PARKS Well after being rescued, all of them moved to Alaska and Cathy apparently underwent 18
hour a day sessions to recover memories.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS And here is where we might find the source of Cathy's fantasies. Now we don't know where
Cathy O'Brien really was before Mark Phillips but we do know from our study of the satanic
panic that recovered memory therapy creates incredibly dark and bizarre fantasies even in
people who have no trauma in their past at all.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Unless you believe that people who believe that memories are repressed are actually people
that are within the PSYOP community saying like oh your crazy memories, that's fake
memories, that's all fake memories that come from the inside of your brain. That's fake, that
was put their by the hypnotist because they don't want you to know the real truth is that it's
all real.
MARCUS PARKS They're demonstrably false.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I don't know what to tell you, buddy. I read a book.
BEN KISSEL He's holding the book.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Look at this book I have in my hands.
BEN KISSEL There are a lot of pages in there, filled words that were typed out.
MARCUS PARKS They were typed out. Not typed out correctly spelled but typed out anyway.
BEN KISSEL No.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI No, no, they don't need that. The truth does not come with letters.
BEN KISSEL Or editors apparently.
MARCUS PARKS Well furthermore these demonstrably false satanic ritual abuse stories are eerily similar to
Cathy O'Brien's fantasies. And it may not be a coincidence that Cathy's memory recovery
began after the satanic panic was already in full swing. Either she or Mark Phillips could have
easily bought 'Michelle Remembers', they could have easily fucking been Mike Warnke fans.
All this shit comes from somewhere, they definitely followed the McMartin preschool trial, I
guarantee you that.
BEN KISSEL It does seem like someone on acid would try to nail jello to a wall.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL And also when you're on acid you think about an airplane, you're like what about a bullet?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, you're looking at the pan just being like, 'All right, so nothing sticks to this fucking teflon.
How the fuck did they get the nonstick to stick to it?'
BEN KISSEL Oh god.
MARCUS PARKS I've just been sitting here just thinking all fucking day like how do you know if yogurt's gone
bad, man? Like how do you fucking know if yogurt's gone bad?
BEN KISSEL You just got Warnked.
MARCUS PARKS Therefore if Cathy O'Brien did go through the kind of actual trauma that we think she did, that
she almost positively did, then it's possible that she and Mark played an extended game of yes
and. And through years of positive affirmation, them ping ponging it back and forth and
positive affirmation from conspiracy theorists that only got stronger when fucking Cathy
O'Brien got a Twitter account-
BEN KISSEL And they were monetizing it too, right?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, they were monetizing it. Both Cathy and Mark are absolutely convinced that their story
is the unquestionable truth. Cathy O'Brien released a documentary this week.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Oh my god, what are the odds of that?
MARCUS PARKS I don't know!
BEN KISSEL Don't watch it Marcus, it's okay, synchronicities are good.
MARCUS PARKS Dude not this one. Cause you know what she's gonna think? She's gonna think that she fucking
released this documentary and that we actually released the fucking MK Ultra series at the
same time so people would look at her documentary and think that it's fucking garbage. So i
guarantee you she thinks that we're CIA PSYOP agents.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Guess what? She's right. I'm gonna pull off my mask. I'm Hillary Clinton! Eat me! Come and eat
me now!
BEN KISSEL Get over here, Hillary.
MARCUS PARKS That's the horrible thing about conspiracy theories is that by debunking the conspiracy theory
and talking about their conspiracy theory, we are in fact reinforcing their conspiracy thought.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Well I'm happy we only did five episodes on it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, that's it. And then I started watching her documentary and don't worry, it does not go
too hard on MK Ultra but just know for a fact that masks are used by the CIA to this day to
train you in MK Ultra. That's what they're doing and that's all it is. And vaccines, they are
poison.
BEN KISSEL Yeah, I've heard that story before.
MARCUS PARKS Now Cathy O'Brien is not the only one who claims to have been a part of a program like this.
The other is Candy Jones who also claims to have developed multiple personality disorder
from childhood abuse. Candy was a former Miss Atlantic City and a paranormal radio
personality who claimed to have been qualified to use explosives, fight in close combat, resist
pain, and kill with her bare hands as a result of MK Ultra programming.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Sweet.
BEN KISSEL Honestly that's how you become Miss Atlantic City.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh yeah. Yeah, you have to be able to choke out a dude from behind.
MARCUS PARKS She's not as graphic as Cathy O'Brien. She does talk about the vagina candle experiment, she
said that it happened to her in an auditorium full of CIA operatives. But really the only thing
that gives Candy's story an ounce of credibility is the fact that she made these claims under
hypnosis before MK Ultra became public knowledge. And that is interesting.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I think there is some truth to the fact that it seems as if she shared an office, she had a private
studio and across the way from her was a dude that moonlighted as a CIA asset and it's quite
possible that she was used to bring messages for the CIA to various places because she was a
hot chick. She was like kind of one of those pinups that everybody in WWII would jerk off to
and as she got a little bit older the CIA used her maybe. Who knows?
MARCUS PARKS Who knows?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI But 'Operation Mind Control' by Walter Bowart has a whole fucking chapter on it.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah.
BEN KISSEL Okay.
MARCUS PARKS But when she had those recovered memories, she didn't mention MK Ultra by name nor did
she mention anyone that we know to have been a part of the program. She mentioned others
specifically by name but not anyone that we know for a fact was a part of it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Like Dr. Greene who actually was Dr. Josef Mengele that did not go to South America, he
moved to Virginia, my friend.
BEN KISSEL Oh my goodness, I didn't see that coming. What a crazy game of Clue this has turned into.
MARCUS PARKS And as we said, brainwashing had been a part of the American consciousness for a while
because The Manchurian Candidate had been made into a hit film over a decade before. So all
this stuff was not plucked out of thin air, it was all out there to be fucking farmed.
BEN KISSEL Hypnotism, whatever. I want my baby back, baby back, baby back ribs. Chili's baby back ribs.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI They got you, bro! Oh Chili op!
BEN KISSEL The greatest ops of all time: advertising.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. Eating good in the neighborhood. That's me.
BEN KISSEL I know you are. I'm the neighborhood.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm going to be all that I can be in the US Army.
BEN KISSEL I would love to see you be an army of one.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I will be on day.
BEN KISSEL Yeah. When you make your killdozer?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, we'll see.
MARCUS PARKS Furthermore Donald Bain, the man who co-wrote Candy Jones' book, 'The CIA's Control of
Candy Jones', he was mostly a popular fiction writer who had in fact ghost written a number of
Murder She Wrote books.
BEN KISSEL Angela Lansbury! It all comes full circle.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI We were talking about that fucking bitch on Sirius XM.
BEN KISSEL You better not be criticizing her.
MARCUS PARKS No, she's not. She's not. Don't talk bad about her.
BEN KISSEL She's a saint.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I wanna see evidence.
BEN KISSEL Trust 2/3, democracy, you lose. Angela Lansbury is an icon.
MARCUS PARKS Yeah. She's an icon, she's a treasure.
BEN KISSEL And also why isn't she being praised?
HENRY ZEBROWSKI She acts like a teapot and she's not! She's a woman.
BEN KISSEL That was a cartoon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yeah, sure. In your world.
BEN KISSEL You don't think Beauty and the Beast was a cartoon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI I'm not even gonna answer that.
BEN KISSEL You're broken.
MARCUS PARKS So in the end we're really not left with one of those 'we may never know' conclusions. We
have a pretty goddamn good idea of who was involved in MK Ultra, what the objectives were,
when it was done, where occurred, and why they did it. The problem is that we will never
recover those 7 boxes of documents destroyed by the CIA in the 70s, nor will we ever see the
personal files destroyed by Sidney Gottlieb. This of course will leave room for conspiracy
concerning MK Ultra for the duration of America's existence and there's not a goddamn thing
you can say to a lot of believers because they can always point to this void as evidence. But at
the end of the day, I think that if we focus on the human element in all this and remember that
the octopus of malice was ultimately just a scared if dangerous animal, we can prevent
ourselves from becoming unmoored from reality like the men who created MK Ultra.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Holy shit, the octopus is finally asleep.
BEN KISSEL Thank god. Put a bullet in its head. Isn't it enough just to know that MK Ultra was real?
MARCUS PARKS Yeah, right.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI This is what I'm saying!
BEN KISSEL The government was giving everybody CIA acid. That for me is just like wow. We don't need
anything else, we don't need a child sex ring.
MARCUS PARKS Wow, yeah. We don't need to extended universe this shit.
BEN KISSEL Anyway wow, all right. MK Ultra part 5, we're putting this baby to bed. Thank you all so much
for listening to this series.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI We rode it hard and we put it away wet.
BEN KISSEL Absolutely.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Just like Cathy O'Brien. But guys, I just want to say thank you for supporting us being here
because guess what? You know we're doing next week? Aliens. So fucking excited, we're doing
ae relaxed fit. And we got a big old heavy hitter series coming right after that. Super excited to
go into the normal world of serial killers after this. If alien abductions are real and are not also
an extended PSYOP.
MARCUS PARKS It's over, dude. It's over. Stop it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Oh I'm done! I'm fine.
MARCUS PARKS Burn that fucking book, throw it out the window of the next car you ride in.
BEN KISSEL Actually give it to a homeless person and see what they do with it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI See what they do.
BEN KISSEL Spread the word.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI You go wink. I need a trench coat.
BEN KISSEL Yeah you do.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Cause then I can be like, 'Here's the truth.'
BEN KISSEL All right everyone. Well thank you so much for listening and thanks so much for supporting our
new show on Sirius Open Lines, you guys have all been calling in, your stories are incredible, so
we're just so honored to be over there. And it's great to be able to chit chat with y'all.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Yes and that is Monday's Channel 103 Faction Talk, 4pm Pacific
MARCUS PARKS 7pm Eastern.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Thank you.
BEN KISSEL Nailed it.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI And then also Side Stories is going to start doing video episodes on the Patreon next week,
you're gonna see our fucking big bloated faces on that as well. I'm really excited for you to see
that. And then we've got The Last Comic Book on the Left is coming out very soon.
MARCUS PARKS Very soon.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI That's by Z2, go pre order that over on Z2 Comics.
BEN KISSEL Absolutely. Yeah, just keep on supporting all the shows here on Last Podcast Network. We've
got Top Hat, I know Spun is having a new season coming out.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Very soon.
BEN KISSEL No Dogs has a new season coming out. Alright everyone, well thank you so much for listening.
Hail yourselves!
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Let the kings be kings. Let the bankers be bankers. Let the priests be priests.
BEN KISSEL What happened? Hail yourselves!
MARCUS PARKS Hail Gein. It's over.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Hail Satan.
BEN KISSEL Megustalations everybody.
HENRY ZEBROWSKI Hail me if you will.
MARCUS PARKS Bye.